First Ascents: to share or not to share

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limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2012 - 09:28pm PT
Hahahaa!!! Now I get it!
McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Nov 28, 2012 - 09:31pm PT
That's trippy - goes through that stack O Ceilings/Arches?
Credit: McHale's Navy
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 28, 2012 - 09:35pm PT
From where I am there, it goes up and right through one more flap, then into the corner for a few wild moves up past that tooth, then out a bit left on the actual arete, then back in the corner. It's a friggin' wild pitch!

McHale's Navy

Trad climber
Panorama City, California & living in Seattle
Nov 28, 2012 - 09:40pm PT
If I went up there to do the 2nd ascent and pulled it off I would not tell a soul. I would write a (very obscure) poem about it and post on the poetry thread.
drljefe

climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
Nov 28, 2012 - 09:44pm PT
YO Limpingcrab
I was just kidding about tweeting, I don't even know how to tweet. I just thought it would make a cute first post.

What I did this summer was spray endlessly on facebook and post some shots on supertopo.
Had to be kind of ambiguous about location, though, because there are still some sweet lines to be had.
I think once most of the best lines are done did, the main man will do a little mtn proj thing and give topos to the local guidebook guy.
ladyscarlett

Trad climber
SF Bay Area, California
Nov 29, 2012 - 04:31am PT
whatever you do...beWARE the n00bs! We are everywhere, lurking in the shadows, just waiting for that key piece of info that will lead us to the heaven of all climbs we KNOW is just over the next ridge.

Who knows, if we find it, we may just come to love, respect, and care for it ourselves...or not, and share it willy-nilly!
so beware, because you can't really tell if the n00b will care or jump straight to share.

But not everyone deserves to know, and in my experience, that kind of trust is earned.

2p

cheers
LS
rich sims

Social climber
co
Nov 29, 2012 - 11:01am PT
77-91 I remember hours of searching out boulders in SDeggo.
The year before I left and moved to Colorado I had a conversation with a concrete finisher who climbed EC Mountain and other areas in SD in the 50s.
I showed him the red SD county guide and he showed me where old CCC trails were.one trail made reported 4 hour bushwack into a 30 minute stroll. Access was an issue to getting to some areas.
He left his rack an rope on top of EC Mountain after an epic accent.
It has been almost 25 years that we last talked, but it would be interesting to talk to him again.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Nov 29, 2012 - 11:18am PT
Go up there in some frumpy outfit and when you bail all your buds say "good effort." Go up in bright orange lycra and bail and your buds all call you a fag. That's incentive for ya.

WOW great tip. That is how you free climb through hard terrain! They don't tell you this sh#t in "How to climb 5.12" books!! This thread is golden.

I had a good laugh when, a few years ago, a climbing mag article referred to The Needles as a "back country area." Christ, you can car camp there.

Soon people will be complaining about approaches to Buttermilks.

Why Desperadoes did not see 2nd ascent (maybe)? Think of it this way. If you can climb 5.12, why would you go all the way there to repeat a route? You are likely to look for own first ascents, or repeat routes closer to the road (unless it's a real striking line. I think the new free climb on Angel Wings may see a 2nd and 3rd at some point). How many striking lines on Tehipete Dome were repeated? And that's Tehipete Dome!
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Nov 29, 2012 - 12:21pm PT
The pictures do not show how steep Desperadoes really is....

Its doubble overhanging!!! The photo of Kris, where you head right looks like you get to a rest spot, but NO... its OW and you... well I, was clinging for dear life to just regain my breath. Then the climb gets really steep.

Im just watin for some young buck (Miles, Vitality, Limping)to go do the thing and down rate it.

It really not that far of a hike, if you use the Mules. Hiking out is done in one day and its not a death bushwack by anymeans.

And Limping... Yes Hoodwink went to the top... pretty much straight up from the end of P1... follow the many bolts of the Merkin.

And Dan... Did you see the photo of your pack? I still lug that one around when I have a big load to haul.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 29, 2012 - 12:42pm PT
...to go do the thing and down rate it.

Ya think?

I'll just say that I was being very conservative calling pitches two and three 11d. Especially two which as you say throws everything at you but the kitchen sink. Pitch three is more of a boulder problem followed by a bunch of 5.9. Pitch 5 is the business though. I know the factor of intimidation doesn't count in the grade, but holy crap it is wild up there. Thank God for tights!
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2012 - 01:07pm PT
I'd probably have to be able to climb it to give any input on the rating, and I'm a long way off from that level. It's one of those "someday I hope to be able to climb that" kind of routes.

Has it had a first non-free ascent? I can do that I think.
lubbockclimber

Trad climber
lubbock,tx
Nov 29, 2012 - 01:14pm PT
When climbing in my home state Texas. No matter how awsome it I don't tell a soul.
Why?
Because, it was still in Texas!

Example first ascent of a 5.11 (?) at Palo Duro canyon. I can't imagine anyone ever giving two shits about climbing that choss depository.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Nov 29, 2012 - 01:24pm PT
I'd probably have to be able to climb it to give any input on the rating, and I'm a long way off from that level. It's one of those "someday I hope to be able to climb that" kind of routes.

100% lol. These guys think we can climb 5.12. haha. Maybe if someone sets up a haul system.
Seriously though I hope Daniel's knee recovers an we can get out to GOD next year. Hopefully it is doable with your schedule! Most likely I am taking the whole summer off...so many damn places to visit.
moosedrool

Trad climber
lost, far away from Poland
Nov 29, 2012 - 01:58pm PT
I wan't tell you where it is, but you can take a look at this beauty.
An excellent 40' long flaring crack/face/slab. First and only ascend on top rope.
photo not found
Missing photo ID#256859

photo not found
Missing photo ID#256863

It's MINE!!!
mouse from merced

Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
Nov 29, 2012 - 02:25pm PT
"Whatever you do...beWARE the n00bs! We are everywhere, lurking in the shadows, just waiting for that key piece of info that will lead us to the heaven of all climbs we KNOW is just over the next ridge.
Who knows, if we find it, we may just come to love, respect, and care for it ourselves...or not, and share it willy-nilly!
So beware, because you can't really tell if the n00b will care or jump straight to share.
But not everyone deserves to know, and in my experience, that kind of trust is earned."--LS

It's a Killer Kwestion, and one deserving of a think.

I'm divided, and the kwestion is the greater good, obviously. No n00b's equipped with sensitivity. the urge to spread the news of ANY new thing is hard to resist. I like Vitaliy's style, that of doing cleanly as possible the classics, telling of those, and keeping the firsts in abeyance, so to speak.

If it's a local crag, the Grotto up in Jamestown, for example. There are many lines, and only the locals know 'em. Word gets around, like it or not, because the chalk's still there. There's no need for anyone to crow, because it's one pitch, it's not changing the course of history to add that to the general fund of knowledge.

Of course, this practice of hiding FAs leaves guidebook editors weeping, but F them.

In an "arena" like the Ditch, Zion, THE GUNKS, and Squamish, things need to be arranged and re-arranged from tome to tome. It keeps them editors happy and is a valuable historical tool. The smaller crags it's just up to the individuals who climb there the most often to pass around the information.

It was easier by far in the past to keep up than it is now. You looked at the Sierra Club Bulletin, then Summit, then Climbing. And for international reports you had Mountain and the AAC. It was a totally different game then, in the seventies.

Today it's much easier to report, so I imagine it is more tempting to put up the news of your latest 5.7c, which is only a variation on an existing line sandwiched in between two others which follow two separate bolt lines, whose origins are so well-documented in the two-page copy of a Zerox that passes for the local guidebook. Tough choice there.

Why bother? Is God going to come down and anoint you Herself?

If one were Werner, though, it would be a total different other thing entirely, un bound byconvention, fearless of the outcome...
Credit: mouse from merced
Were I were Werner, I'd get Merry off her butt and go out and do some FAs, write them up, then offer the original hard copies for sale on eBay for whatever I could get, were I Werner.

Climbing Bits from the Yosemite Ritz, that's some quacker.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2012 - 02:37pm PT
So what do all of you think about sites like mountainproject?

I'm torn. I like to use it, but I'm not sure if I like myself or anyone else putting stuff on it?
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 29, 2012 - 06:23pm PT
When I go there for information I find that it's pretty hit and miss. A lot of pages lack key information like how to get there. But I like seeing comments by people who have done a route or visited an area. If I don't want beta I wont look there.

I'm pretty careful about what I will post on MP. For example the Gorge of Despair stuff is pretty carefully filtered. Some things don't belong on the web but rather should remain as nice surprises for those who actually get there.

Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Nov 29, 2012 - 06:27pm PT
How are the views there? Beautiful sunsets?

Personally, I think when you post adventurous climbs they will not ever attract mainstream climbers you would meet at Lovers Leap. The kind of people you will meet will probably be the kind that you can get along just fine. If I go to GOD next year and find a few people there, I would be happy to see them!
So when you do post some new crags without topos/ step by step climb instructions, and with even minimal approaches, they will usually not attract big crowds anyway. Probably it is up to an individual if they want to post or not post- depending if the climb is worthy.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Nov 29, 2012 - 06:28pm PT
...to go do the thing and down rate it.

Ya think?

I'll just say that I was being very conservative calling pitches two and three 11d. Especially two which as you say throws everything at you but the kitchen sink. Pitch three is more of a boulder problem followed by a bunch of 5.9. Pitch 5 is the business though. I know the factor of intimidation doesn't count in the grade, but holy crap it is wild up there.

Kris you know I am just kidding..... We have never been downrated - ever.

Called sandbagers before, but heck I can't account for others lack of skill.
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 29, 2012 - 06:48pm PT
Guy that reminds me of one of the great climbing quotes of all time...

Some fella I didn't know got shut down hard on one of Scott Loomis' routes at Courtright. He turned to Scott, who was sitting there quite well relaxed, and said "You're a f*cking sandbagger! I can climb 10c. That is no 10c!"

Scott's measured reply: "It's a technical move. I can't help it if you don't know how to climb."
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