First Ascents: to share or not to share

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The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Nov 29, 2012 - 08:11pm PT
Like I said, Kris, nothing personal.

I'm sure you know where the Innocent, Ignorant, Insecure comment came from, but to inform the younger climbers - Bridwell wrote an article for Mountain Magazine, I believe, in the early/mid seventies titled "The Innocent, the Ignorant and the Insecure" about downrating climbs.

Rating new climbs is challenging, if you care about being accurate, because there are lots of factors that can be at play which likely won't be at play on subsequent ascents.

Dirt on holds from cleaning, loose rock, energy spent drilling, energy spent routefinding, the general unknown - all that stuff and more. Makes putting a number on it difficult, and a trivial part of the equation really.

I try to be accurate, but I probably tend to lean to the overrate side more than underrating because I feel it's generally a more enjoyable, and sometimes safer, experience for following ascents if they're not getting in over their heads. And that's really why a first ascensionist bothers to rate a route - for the benefit of the next guy.

When you hardly ever climb established routes at developed areas, your perspective of the standards gets a little blurry. Especially with old age.

About the only downside of overrating is ridicule from underraters. Whatever.


Like Abe Lincoln said "You can please some of the people..."


Edit: Oh look! My post was at 5:11 - felt like 5:12 to me


Edit: actually it was, " You can fool some of the people..."

That probably applies just as well
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 29, 2012 - 08:22pm PT
Edit: Oh look! My post was at 5:11 - felt like 5:12 to me

Classic!! lol...
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Nov 29, 2012 - 08:30pm PT
Kevin.... good post.

When I rate things I always try to go back in my mind to a similar climb and similar moves, based on some sort of standard.

To me the STANDARD is Taquitz.

If something is about as hard as the OpenBook.... i call it 5.9.

to me 10d is hard... and I don't like to call something 11 if its hard for me just cause I had a hard time.

At the GOD the whole thing felt really serious, because of the distance from the road.

That being said, I agree with Kris call on the ratings.

I really get disapointed when I do a climb that is rated ... 11c and in reality goes at like 10d...

One last thing, I never- on purpose - sandbag folks. I think that sucks.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Nov 30, 2012 - 01:25am PT
At the GOD the whole thing felt really serious, because of the distance from the road.

I think I said it somewhere before, but it is quite interesting how some people would not call GOD as alpine climbing due to relatively low elevation. But being somewhere so remote feels a lot more 'serious/alpine' than climbing stuff on the Hulk or on East Buttress of Whitney.
MisterE

Social climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:14am PT
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1873871
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:43pm PT
I think I said it somewhere before, but it is quite interesting how some people would not call GOD as alpine climbing due to relatively low elevation. But being somewhere so remote feels a lot more 'serious/alpine' than climbing stuff on the Hulk or on East Buttress of Whitney.

Vitality... The GOD is the most remote place I have ever visited in the Sierra. The "trails" stop at Frypan Mdws.... It's all cross-country hiking but its easy to follow cause you stick to drainage systems. At nite you see no man-made lights. There are/were zero signs that people even go there.... we signed summit registers where we were the third accent... first in 1956, by Ax Nelson.

When your at Whitney, Mt Sill, Hulk... you know that people are around, you can look down and see then on the trails, you find all sorts of man made debrits laying around.... At the GOD we only found stuff laying around that the Native Americans left.

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 30, 2012 - 12:49pm PT
Remote....in the Sierras. I guess that's possible in a relative sense.

Share first ascents this is climbing not surfing.
Vitaliy M.

Mountain climber
San Francisco
Nov 30, 2012 - 01:23pm PT
guyman, how long were you guys there for? saw any petroglyphs? Hope limpingcrab and I will get out there in 2013 for sure. Seems like a sweet place.
guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Nov 30, 2012 - 02:11pm PT
guyman, how long were you guys there for? saw any petroglyphs? Hope limpingcrab and I will get out there in 2013 for sure. Seems like a sweet place.

We would take a week vacation and use the weekends on both ends to do the hiking...

No petroglyphs... better stuff, thats all I will say.

And to Donini.... remote is a relative thing, don't you think? We looked into getting a Helo ride to the top of one of the formations... they are outside of the NP boundry... from Fresno. This would be like a 40 min round trip. No -dice- some stupid FAA regulation about flying low.

But back to the OP.... Yes, I like to share the information about climbs and the climbinig spots I go to. But I do like to get the plumbs picked before spilling the beans to the public.

And Ron, are you counting all the boulder problems?????? ;>)
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2012 - 02:44pm PT
Remote....in the Sierras. I guess that's possible in a relative sense.

Sounds like somebody spent too much time on the east side and in yosemite!

Spent 41 days in the sierra this summer counting fishing, climbing, hiking and backpacking and hardly ever say anyone. Also never saw one climber! But compared to AK and other countries, you have a good point.


We looked into getting a Helo ride to the top of one of the formations... they are outside of the NP boundry

What formation? Harrington? GOD is in the park.
cultureshock

Trad climber
Mountain View
Nov 30, 2012 - 05:58pm PT
Share!

http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Adventure-and-an-FA-at-Merriam-Peak/t11761n.html

It would be great to see more stuff in the AAJ too.

Pretty slim number of reports for California:

http://aaj.americanalpineclub.org/climbs-and-expeditions/north-america/contiguous-united-states-lower-48/california/

I'm sure people are doing more new routes.

I think that new areas will most often be kept secret. Sometimes there are access issues, some times due to potential crowding.

Personally I don't know many people who are willing to put in the effort to do new routes.

It's one thing to do an onsight FA and just leave the climb as you found it (which is totally cool and proud). It's a whole other thing to clean a climb and then execute the FA when it is at your limit. This often means many trips and more total effort.

Kris/Guy your route on the Silver Turret looks totally rad. I was WAY psyched when Kris put it up on Mountain Project. Maybe someday...

Did you guys ever climb at Tehipite Dome? Seems like that would be a good first place to go in the Sequoia/Kings canyon area.

 Luke
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 30, 2012 - 06:13pm PT
Did you guys ever climb at Tehipite Dome?

I have not climbed at Tehipite at least not yet.

As you can see from some of the pictures, when you are in the Gorge of Despair you are looking down at it from above - quite a sight!

There are a couple folks who pop up on these threads from time to time who have done big things on Tehipite. EC Joe of course.

I'd like to just walk out to the top of the thing once from Wishon with enough stuff to hang a couple days and a good photo set up.
telemon01

Trad climber
Montana
Nov 30, 2012 - 09:39pm PT
Here are a couple of probable first ascents from two days ago- unless someone climbed them previously and never shared

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Nov 30, 2012 - 09:45pm PT
No such thing as a first ascent on ice....every year, actually nearly every day, the route changes. Kinda like going to the gym and finding that the green route you finally mastered has become the yellow route.
weezy

climber
Nov 30, 2012 - 09:48pm PT
Tell em! Some routes get better with traffic.
telemon01

Trad climber
Montana
Nov 30, 2012 - 09:56pm PT
ice climbs are ephemeral, but it is justifiable, in my mind, to claim a first ascent of a specific line.

Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Nov 30, 2012 - 11:42pm PT
Whatever makes you feel like a special snowflake. Within 5 years of your death, no one will give a sh#t other than your loved ones and close friends. Climbers are a peculiar bunch with warped realities and false senses of self-importance. I raise a toast to the forgettable and to those who seem to find a way to get the job done despite the impossible, and oh so cool, opinion of the Internet Superhero.

/cheers!
telemon01

Trad climber
Montana
Dec 1, 2012 - 10:13am PT

Bolts create a more permanent legacy- we all have different forms of self expression I guess.

Roughster

Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:12pm PT
Sorry Telemon1, I have to disagree. In the context of "life as we know it, bolts are far from permanent. I have seen area bolts "rust" to unrecognizable blobs, soon to be gone forever within 15-20 years. I have seen complete areas striped of hangers and 2 years later you couldn't tell anyone had ever set foot there before.

Is drilling a 3/8" x 3" hole in a rock really that big of a deal considering:

Credit: Roughster

Maybe this is a sign I am just getting old, but who really gives a f*#k? Are we so important as climbers that we can call some small holes in out of the way rocks as a national tragedy? Have we offended God by actually enjoying the outdoors?

As we as a society slowly migrate to the cities and lock ourselves in front of TVs and computers, I don't think we are far away from the vast majority of people not even knowing WTF is going outside their self-imposed prison walls. Climbers enjoying nature in all of climbing forms should be celebrated.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Dec 1, 2012 - 07:14pm PT
The Hurt Driller vs The Internet Superheroes

How... old.
Messages 81 - 100 of total 108 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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