The Warbler
climber
the edge of America
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Nov 29, 2012 - 04:45pm PT
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If you have "...have never been downrated - ever."
Good chance you underrate your routes a lot. By some climbers' definition, that makes you a sandbagger...
Innocent, Ignorant, or Insecure
Nothing personal - just an observation
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Nov 29, 2012 - 04:50pm PT
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Kevin all I am is a bit conservative about the grades.
Innocent, Ignorant, or Insecure
None of the above. I just don't like grade inflation. I'm not usually off by much but if I miss it will be under not over by intent. Keeps it real.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 29, 2012 - 05:00pm PT
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I like inflated grades. They make me feel hardcore
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The Warbler
climber
the edge of America
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Nov 29, 2012 - 05:11pm PT
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Like I said, Kris, nothing personal.
I'm sure you know where the Innocent, Ignorant, Insecure comment came from, but to inform the younger climbers - Bridwell wrote an article for Mountain Magazine, I believe, in the early/mid seventies titled "The Innocent, the Ignorant and the Insecure" about downrating climbs.
Rating new climbs is challenging, if you care about being accurate, because there are lots of factors that can be at play which likely won't be at play on subsequent ascents.
Dirt on holds from cleaning, loose rock, energy spent drilling, energy spent routefinding, the general unknown - all that stuff and more. Makes putting a number on it difficult, and a trivial part of the equation really.
I try to be accurate, but I probably tend to lean to the overrate side more than underrating because I feel it's generally a more enjoyable, and sometimes safer, experience for following ascents if they're not getting in over their heads. And that's really why a first ascensionist bothers to rate a route - for the benefit of the next guy.
When you hardly ever climb established routes at developed areas, your perspective of the standards gets a little blurry. Especially with old age.
About the only downside of overrating is ridicule from underraters. Whatever.
Like Abe Lincoln said "You can please some of the people..."
Edit: Oh look! My post was at 5:11 - felt like 5:12 to me
Edit: actually it was, " You can fool some of the people..."
That probably applies just as well
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Nov 29, 2012 - 05:22pm PT
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Edit: Oh look! My post was at 5:11 - felt like 5:12 to me
Classic!! lol...
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Nov 29, 2012 - 05:30pm PT
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Kevin.... good post.
When I rate things I always try to go back in my mind to a similar climb and similar moves, based on some sort of standard.
To me the STANDARD is Taquitz.
If something is about as hard as the OpenBook.... i call it 5.9.
to me 10d is hard... and I don't like to call something 11 if its hard for me just cause I had a hard time.
At the GOD the whole thing felt really serious, because of the distance from the road.
That being said, I agree with Kris call on the ratings.
I really get disapointed when I do a climb that is rated ... 11c and in reality goes at like 10d...
One last thing, I never- on purpose - sandbag folks. I think that sucks.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Nov 29, 2012 - 10:25pm PT
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At the GOD the whole thing felt really serious, because of the distance from the road.
I think I said it somewhere before, but it is quite interesting how some people would not call GOD as alpine climbing due to relatively low elevation. But being somewhere so remote feels a lot more 'serious/alpine' than climbing stuff on the Hulk or on East Buttress of Whitney.
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Nov 30, 2012 - 09:43am PT
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I think I said it somewhere before, but it is quite interesting how some people would not call GOD as alpine climbing due to relatively low elevation. But being somewhere so remote feels a lot more 'serious/alpine' than climbing stuff on the Hulk or on East Buttress of Whitney.
Vitality... The GOD is the most remote place I have ever visited in the Sierra. The "trails" stop at Frypan Mdws.... It's all cross-country hiking but its easy to follow cause you stick to drainage systems. At nite you see no man-made lights. There are/were zero signs that people even go there.... we signed summit registers where we were the third accent... first in 1956, by Ax Nelson.
When your at Whitney, Mt Sill, Hulk... you know that people are around, you can look down and see then on the trails, you find all sorts of man made debrits laying around.... At the GOD we only found stuff laying around that the Native Americans left.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 30, 2012 - 09:49am PT
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Remote....in the Sierras. I guess that's possible in a relative sense.
Share first ascents this is climbing not surfing.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Nov 30, 2012 - 10:23am PT
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guyman, how long were you guys there for? saw any petroglyphs? Hope limpingcrab and I will get out there in 2013 for sure. Seems like a sweet place.
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Ron Anderson
Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
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Nov 30, 2012 - 10:38am PT
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we are working on new NV areas..They wont be divulged till completed of what we want. Nevada has , im thinkin, about two million routes waiting to be- on cliffs that have never felt a human before. Odd how what appears in the distance to be a small crag grows to 600 feet by the time you touch it.
Then throw in stellar raptor shows as hawks falcons and eagles give you fly bys and not a sound or sight of civilization to be had...
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Nov 30, 2012 - 11:11am PT
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guyman, how long were you guys there for? saw any petroglyphs? Hope limpingcrab and I will get out there in 2013 for sure. Seems like a sweet place.
We would take a week vacation and use the weekends on both ends to do the hiking...
No petroglyphs... better stuff, thats all I will say.
And to Donini.... remote is a relative thing, don't you think? We looked into getting a Helo ride to the top of one of the formations... they are outside of the NP boundry... from Fresno. This would be like a 40 min round trip. No -dice- some stupid FAA regulation about flying low.
But back to the OP.... Yes, I like to share the information about climbs and the climbinig spots I go to. But I do like to get the plumbs picked before spilling the beans to the public.
And Ron, are you counting all the boulder problems?????? ;>)
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 30, 2012 - 11:44am PT
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Remote....in the Sierras. I guess that's possible in a relative sense.
Sounds like somebody spent too much time on the east side and in yosemite!
Spent 41 days in the sierra this summer counting fishing, climbing, hiking and backpacking and hardly ever say anyone. Also never saw one climber! But compared to AK and other countries, you have a good point.
We looked into getting a Helo ride to the top of one of the formations... they are outside of the NP boundry
What formation? Harrington? GOD is in the park.
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cultureshock
Trad climber
Mountain View
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Nov 30, 2012 - 02:58pm PT
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Share!
http://www.supertopo.com/tr/Adventure-and-an-FA-at-Merriam-Peak/t11761n.html
It would be great to see more stuff in the AAJ too.
Pretty slim number of reports for California:
http://aaj.americanalpineclub.org/climbs-and-expeditions/north-america/contiguous-united-states-lower-48/california/
I'm sure people are doing more new routes.
I think that new areas will most often be kept secret. Sometimes there are access issues, some times due to potential crowding.
Personally I don't know many people who are willing to put in the effort to do new routes.
It's one thing to do an onsight FA and just leave the climb as you found it (which is totally cool and proud). It's a whole other thing to clean a climb and then execute the FA when it is at your limit. This often means many trips and more total effort.
Kris/Guy your route on the Silver Turret looks totally rad. I was WAY psyched when Kris put it up on Mountain Project. Maybe someday...
Did you guys ever climb at Tehipite Dome? Seems like that would be a good first place to go in the Sequoia/Kings canyon area.
 Luke
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Nov 30, 2012 - 03:13pm PT
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Did you guys ever climb at Tehipite Dome?
I have not climbed at Tehipite at least not yet.
As you can see from some of the pictures, when you are in the Gorge of Despair you are looking down at it from above - quite a sight!
There are a couple folks who pop up on these threads from time to time who have done big things on Tehipite. EC Joe of course.
I'd like to just walk out to the top of the thing once from Wishon with enough stuff to hang a couple days and a good photo set up.
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telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:39pm PT
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Here are a couple of probable first ascents from two days ago- unless someone climbed them previously and never shared
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:45pm PT
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No such thing as a first ascent on ice....every year, actually nearly every day, the route changes. Kinda like going to the gym and finding that the green route you finally mastered has become the yellow route.
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weezy
climber
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:48pm PT
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Tell em! Some routes get better with traffic.
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telemon01
Trad climber
Montana
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Nov 30, 2012 - 06:56pm PT
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ice climbs are ephemeral, but it is justifiable, in my mind, to claim a first ascent of a specific line.
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