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James
climber
My twin brother's laundry room
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 9, 2012 - 03:35pm PT
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Anyone know where I can find a copy of this article- is it online anywhere or can anyone email me a scan?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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In addition, because of a wide range in the 5.10 category, I have added a sub-letter (a through d) to further classify comparative difficulties.
Interesting idea. Bridwell has omitted one other reason to downgrade a route: sandbagging. I never sandbagged anyone on purpose, but my best partners sandbagged me. I guess this is old school learning. Sink or swim mate! If it weren't for them I would have been stuck at my grade and never gone way out there into dangerous territory. I have been accused of sandbagging a couple times but it was a combination of my being able to do the route, and over estimating the person I'm sandbagging. So when my friends sandbagged me it was actually a compliment.
Also we tend to see the opposite effect more often - route grades creeping up instead of down. Since everyone can climb 5.12 these days, thats where we start. I wonder how this relates to the phenomenonn the author was seeing, of downgrading.
One thing Bridwell appears to have been concerned about, but has been lost over time, has been keeping the routes in categoriees: face, hand crack, etc. Routes are directly comparable within these categories, but compare across categories and its apples and oranges.
 Paul
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hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
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Was that article the first time the "A-D" ratings were tagged onto the 5.10 rating? Thus, restructuring the YDS henceforth?
I never knew it was a Bridwell 'creation' (or made accepted by him?). Interesting....
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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There's a lot of unconscious stuff going on with ratings too. You tend to see clusters at some ratings and nothing at others (one thing I've noticed is that odd numbers dominate in the V grades, for whatever reason V6s seem scarce compared to 5's or 7s...and this isn't based on one area, but something I've noticed over many years and many areas).
And we all laugh about the old quip that difficulty really goes:
5.8, 10a, 5.8+, 5.9, 10b, 10c, 5.9+, 11a, 10d, 11b, 11c, 12b, 12a, 11d, 12c, 13a, 12d, 13b, etc.
The "Ds" in particular always seem 'bagged.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Written 39 years ago and spot on. The article, however, doesn't seem to have changed anything.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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I didnt even check who wrote this - now that I see who it is I respect Jim Bridwell even more. But do people agree with this assessment of Yosemite?
Group pride, or the pack instinct, exhibits itself when an entire area is downrated. The climbers here are better than the climbers there, because the climbs here are rated harder.
I believed Yosemite rating were actually the benchmark, at least at one point in time, for climbing ratings across the US. If Yosemite climbs were hard for their ratings, its because everyone else is letting their ratings drift.
Now I learn that the ratings were downrated because of insecurity and sandbagging. It's not that the stonemasters were so much better climbers, it's that they were better sandbaggers. The culmination of all this, is like a meta-sandbag.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Don Paul,
I think he's referring to areas like, for example: Granite Mountain, Arizona or Devils Lake, Wisconsin.
Pretty stiff ratings, however the original locals could probably claim "innocent" due to the effects of some isolation.
These days, lots of seminal places like Needles of South Dakota, even Joshua Tree, cripes, even Eldorado Canyon get accused of knowingly instigating sandbagged ratings, but this is by people ignorant of the fact that ratings were invented in places like that: they are, were and should be the standard.
I'm sure we can come up with an area that locals sandbagged just to show off.
(And yes, the Stonemasters were very much into sandbagging! More often than not, towards one another).
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MisterE
Social climber
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Nov 30, 2012 - 02:23am PT
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Bump for a great Bird discourse copied to text by Ed "HairDome" Hartouni.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 16, 2018 - 06:50am PT
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Bump for a Contribution from the Bird as contemporary ( just change some of the numbers) as it was in when he published it in 1973!
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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Feb 16, 2018 - 06:56am PT
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5.111d the forgotten grade , everyone wants there route to be 5.12
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ionlyski
Trad climber
Polebridge, Montana
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Feb 16, 2018 - 08:41am PT
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When I read that article it seems to me he is railing on people downgrading routes, claiming they are now EASIER, not harder. Is that what you guys are getting from the article? It doesn't look like he is complaining about the ratings creeping up but rather sliding down in difficulty.
Arne
edit-kinda weird. The title works for both directions. If you're insecure you might downgrade to make it seem like you are a harder climber. Conversely insecurity could lead one to grade up and make it sound like you climb a harder grade.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Feb 16, 2018 - 09:16am PT
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5.11d the forgotten grade , everyone wants there route to be 5.12
As a friend always says; “When progressing through grades, always skip the 5.xd and move on to the 5.x+1a. The former are largely put up by curmudgeons, while the latter are likely to be from someone wanting to say they put up a “5.x+1”, even if it falls a little short.”
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Feb 16, 2018 - 12:13pm PT
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And easier yet, in New School Wyde boots with sticky rubber!😎
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| Messages 1 - 16 of total 16 in this topic |
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