First Ascents: to share or not to share

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Messages 41 - 60 of total 112 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Borut

climber
french, spider, cheater
Nov 28, 2012 - 07:52am PT
FAs: my sole reason for joining internet! LOL
Scott Thelen

Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
Nov 28, 2012 - 08:05am PT
I just keep them to myself.

Then smile when they get repeated.

The Warbler

climber
the edge of America
Nov 28, 2012 - 08:32am PT
It's all driven by the love of adventure, exploration, discovery, creativity, nature, climbing - other than that it's purely driven by ego.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Nov 28, 2012 - 08:35am PT
It's all driven by the love of adventure, exploration, discovery, creativity, nature, climbing - other than that it's purely driven by ego.


The coy c*#k teasing consistently displayed here proves that it's certainly a major factor ;).

It's all good though, nobody has copyrighted adventure yet so far as I can tell.

can't say

Social climber
Pasadena CA
Nov 28, 2012 - 08:39am PT
One of my most pleasant memories from my time in N. County SD, was walking point (Brushhook operator) with the Warbler was when we were opening Rainbow.

The man likes to explore.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2012 - 09:24am PT
Hey dingus, where's Sleeping Beauty?


hooblie

climber
from out where the anecdotes roam
Nov 28, 2012 - 09:29am PT
the gift of passage across the passive surface of our planet ...
a string of moments marked with sufficient indelible beauty

Ron Anderson

Trad climber
i WASNT ON THE INTERNET during bush years...
Nov 28, 2012 - 10:12am PT
FAs are mostly done by those with a strong desire of the unknown and untouched. I enjoyed those far better than doing an already established route. Starting climbing when i did- there were TONS of undone things around- so it was just the normal that we were on something new most of the time. After years of compiling climbs and info i got the "bug" to do a guide. This was not out of "ego" but rather a thank you to folks like Eric Beck, Gene Drake, Max Jones, Rick Sumner, Bill Todd, Greg Dexter and John Taylor for THEIR guides to the area that opened up ,many adventures for our group. I had been asked a hunert times to do something for Woodfords as well .

I considered it an honor to catalog climbs by the pioneers of Tahoe- and to give the info out of these areas never before covered seemed a very good gesture to the climbing community. 2.5 years of nothing but hiking , taking pics, making drawings and interviewing climbers. In short, a shyt load of work with very little or NO payback if counting the actual overhead costs out of pocket for such an effort.

One more thing to consider, is that in this day and age of bolting gone mad, if one doenst document a route, yur liable to see it receive some retro stuff - bolts -pins etc etc. Ive already seen that on some of my old routes in Woodfords and other locales.

adventurous one

Trad climber
Truckee Ca.
Nov 28, 2012 - 11:17am PT
This place was my little secret from 35 yrs ago (77/78). The place has seen alot of development since and I only recently became aware of thru
the Lassen/Plumas County thread below. Paul Bernard contacted me about his upcoming guidebook and we set history straight before the book was published. So since the time I climbed there the name of the crag was changed, names of my routes were changed by people thinking they had the FA's. Many routes now have bolted pro and belay/rap stations when my 1st ascents were done clean on lead or top roped.

That's a shame and the best reason, by far, to report fa trad routes done in good style by yourself or those that you have knowledge of.

If you do a route (or have knowledge of one) done in respectable trad style, reporting it so that future generations will, hopefully, respect it and not retro bolt your accomplishment is a service to future climbers/naturalists imo. Look at all the retro bolted and "squeeze" routes we already have in the US of previously undocumented routes done bitd, not to mention the ruining of so many crags in Europe, where some climbers believe it ok to even bolt perfect cracks at many crags. It only takes one (weak minded, oblivious 'first ascentionist" who believes he has the "right") person believing they are doing the Fa to ruin the mental adventure and pro finding fun/challange of a route by retro bolting it. And, it's just interesting to know who/how a route was done "bitd". In the future "today" will be "back in the day" and a part of climbing history.

Personally, my foremost motivation in writing a guidebook (which revealed hundreds of previously obscure, undocumented routes done bitd) was to preserve these traditionally established routes (some of which were starting to be retro bolted and un-necessary hardware at belays installed) in their current un-bolted state for future generations and to discourage retro bolting.


Publisizing a 60' 5.14 sport route has a whole different set of motivations though.................. and publisizing a small crag near an urban area with a sizable number of climbers nearby may have other consequences to consider and differs from areas (the majority) with vast climbing opportunities.



RyanD

climber
Squamish
Nov 28, 2012 - 11:37am PT
. 2.5 years of nothing but hiking , taking pics, making drawings and interviewing climbers. In short, a shyt load of work with very little or NO payback if counting the actual overhead costs out of pocket for such an effort.

Ron's right, the ppl out there developing & organizing guides etc. are doing it out of a passion usually, although like anything in life- the ego can always be incorporated if you aren't paying attention. A big thanks to anyone who has ever done an FA whether they decided to share it or not. All of your hard work is appreciated whether its a little buttdragger in a talus field or a grade V alpine ridge.
Michelle

Trad climber
Toshi's Station, picking up power converters.
Nov 28, 2012 - 11:42am PT
I made the mistake of telling someone I thought could be trusted about an area. Never f*#king again. Ever. Especially when return sharing has never happened. All the stupid secrecy sh#t gets on my nerves and reminds me of high school.
Salamanizer

Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
Nov 28, 2012 - 02:20pm PT
For most of my routes, I can't think of who I'd be "reporting" them too.

"Yeah, I did this totally rad new route called Lost in the Woods on an unnamed crag in an unnamed location. You drive up Silver Fork rd for four or five miles and look for a big tree by a pullout, then dip into the woods heading south, south east for about 2 to 2.5 miles until you come across a hidden circular dome in the trees (it's the route on the left) the climbings no harder than .10a, maybe a couple .10d moves."

Good luck everybody!
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Nov 28, 2012 - 02:27pm PT
You should report them to us Salamanizer, so we know how much you've lost it ;).

Nah, sounds like fun. I've got my eye on a plum hidden in plain view.... It'll have to wait for a bit and I might have to get my hands on a drill if it proves promising. Although, that's probably a coward's way out.
Jeremy

Social climber
Albuquerque, NM
Nov 28, 2012 - 02:27pm PT
I say share if it's not some super secret location.

I understand how people like to keep a place/crag/boulderfield to themselves so they can pick off all the plums. Not my style BTW...but I do understand...

That said, I have done a bunch of FAs that I don't bother to tell people about except for friends and such...mostly due to legal issues...wink!

WOO HOO!!!


JA
T Hocking

Trad climber
Redding, Ca
Nov 28, 2012 - 02:32pm PT
Quote Here
This place was my little secret from 35 yrs ago (77/78). The place has seen alot of development since and I only recently became aware of thru
the Lassen/Plumas County thread below. Paul Bernard contacted me about his upcoming guidebook and we set history straight before the book was published. So since the time I climbed there the name of the crag was changed, names of my routes were changed by people thinking they had the FA's. Many routes now have bolted pro and belay/rap stations when my 1st ascents were done clean on lead or top roped.
Quote Here


Quote Here
That's a shame and the best reason, by far, to report fa trad routes done in good style by yourself or those that you have knowledge of.
Quote Here

Who would I have reported it to BITD? (77/78)
This was an undiscovered crag that only my 2 climbing partners and I
knew of. I did let Joe Fitschen know that the place he pointed us to
was a gem and that we had done some routes there.

I don't harbor any annimosity towards those that came after me thinking they had the FA's and bolting "their route". I don't own the crag, the Forest Service does and it feels good to know others have enjoyed the place enough to develop it. By the way, I only had Paul change the name of 1 route, let 2 route names remain the same, informed him of 2 others he did not know of, and only claimed FA's that I led ground up, even though
I top roped in 77/78 the routes Neff put up and bolted in 89/90.

I'm just glad I could set the history and record straight and contribute
to the new guidebook effort.

P. Bernard and Adventurous One,
Thanks for your continued efforts on the new guidebook, glad I could help and look forward to buying the published work.

Tad

PS, I guess you can tell I can't figure out the damn quoteing format here.

guyman

Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
Nov 28, 2012 - 04:48pm PT
So.... where is "I am" AKA StoneMaster Martin V. ???

Would love to get his take on this.


I do FAs for the excitement.... back in the 70's it was easy to drive up to some rock, see a good line and climb it. If you didn't find the usual hints that its been climbed, tat, faint pin scars, loose stuff you knock off... you might be on a FA.

The whole clean climbing deal, for me, was so that everybody could get the feeling of climbing a virgin chunk of stone.

I have had climbs claimed by others even though I have photos with the date stamp.....

It did make me sad to have a climb Erik and I did in Sequoia on "Little Baldy" - now named "hoodwink" just bolted over. We did it with like 8 bolts in 4 pitches, most on the first pitch....we had some PRE PRODUCTION FRIENDS and they really cut down on the need for bolts. A few years later some Bosh welding climbers put in like 30 bolts.... They were confused when they would find a 1/4 incher every now and then.... OH well.

Now I like to leave Dimes and Nickles from the current year. So if you ever find a dime sticking in a crack.... look at the date.

But now that we have places to record FA's I turn em in.... once my buddies say OK to list.

scuffy b

climber
heading slowly NNW
Nov 28, 2012 - 04:54pm PT
Hey there, Dingus,
I second guess myself pretty regularly, about that draw.
I don't think too many people will go in there more than twice...
Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 28, 2012 - 05:12pm PT
Then there's the places where you go do some really proud FA's, tell the whole world how really awesome the rock is (thinking that climbers really deserve to know about this stuff and get on it) and no one ever goes and repeats these routes (which are as good as it gets) because they are true back country climbs, and apparently most climbers can barely walk.

I had a good laugh when, a few years ago, a climbing mag article referred to The Needles as a "back country area." Christ, you can car camp there.

At least we've been able to share the great climbing at The Rincon with a few hard men and women who don't mind hiking uphill, and it looks like my friend and neighbor Justin is about to make the journey too, but how about the Gorge of Despair? It is no secret that for those able to handle the logistics and approach there are not only great routes there to climb, I think Despairadoes awaits a second, but the opportunities for new routes are amazing.

So there. I sprayed but I doubt it will exactly draw a crowd.
limpingcrab

Trad climber
the middle of CA
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 28, 2012 - 06:19pm PT
Guy: Hoodwink is four pitches? Crap, I thought I climbed it but only went one pitch. Next time... Looks like you should have sprayed :)

Kris: I can't stand that I haven't been to gorge of despair! You're right that most climbers won't walk, I've met very few people who would consider going there. It scared me at first when you put stuff online about it, but then I realized that nobody is going there even if you make a G.O.D. guidebook. I've seen it from every side, but have yet to climb... Desperairadoes looks sweet, but is out of my league. Maybe if I wore tights


Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Nov 28, 2012 - 06:24pm PT
Maybe if I wore tights

Tights are essential! You see, if you paint yourself into a corner by wearing flashy clothing you are in a position where failure is not an option. Go up there in some frumpy outfit and when you bail all your buds say "good effort." Go up in bright orange lycra and bail and your buds all call you a fag. That's incentive for ya.
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