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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Jody: Conservatives aginst conservation!!!! walking contradiction
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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What's done can be undone. Like most of what's happening in these darkest of days.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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^^of course one has to wonder how many one of a kind artifacts will be destroyed or stolen by the local stewards(Local control!) in the mean time.
Of course since it’s not destroying James’ legacy I’m sure Jody’s ok with it as the price of freedumb.
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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What can't be undone is the sale of mineral rights.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Not all of them, check the maps, plenty of sites left out. The locals wouldn’t be so excited if they couldn’t go back to plundering.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Maybe an artificial shortage of said materials would spur some innovation.
You know, like an artificial shortage of resources encourages those lazy welfare types to get jobs.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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some of us values aquifers over artifacts Jody. but i suppose you are a practical man, concerned with selfpreservation in the here and now. I suggest you take a swig of this job making artesian water, the futuristic byproduct of an 18th century fuel, coal.
Dr. Bronner's health tip for the Jodester: it is all connected, the coal extraction site and the finest lastest last living vestige of the glen cyn ecosystem. the you, the me, my sacred watershed and your "wasteland" for coal extraction.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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So trashman, in your view, the federal government is the only entity capable of taking care of areas like this?
Many people who live in rural states, like Utah, are poor whites on the government dole. So while the states are taking care of their citizens, the government has to protect the public lands.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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So trashman, in your view, the federal government is the only entity capable of taking care of areas like this?
Not at all, I’ve seen local organizations do a great job, I’ve also seen the way locals like Phil Lyman and James Redd “protect” the area, and the reticence of this state to enforce the law when criminals like that are caught.
In this particular case I think the feds have shown themselves to be much more reliable stewards, so I support their management.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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I am perhaps more opposed to overmanagement than the next person, but JFC has anyone seem what just recreation alone has done to IC? Jody? oh wait.....
someone needs to be responsible for the climber feces, the acid rock tainting of OUR freshwater aquifer. it ain't bigdaddy coal, or excops from cali, and it sure isnt perfect public ownership-wise, but damn, as a person that actually knows the area, yeah, no, we do not need to regress to 17th C. England fuel sources. certainly not in our rare and fine desert. certainly not for to truck it out on diesel to fuel that liberal sex den Vegas. Right Jody.
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Fossil climber
Trad climber
Atlin, B. C.
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If what I've heard in the news is correct, Chouinard will be joining a number of native American groups in legal proceedings. Yvon may be on top of things to a point, but he and the Navajos etc. can't do it all . I can't do much, writing from a home in Canada, but I hope lots of climbers will gang up on this, do whatever they can.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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we will, Wayne. Thanks for standing on the proper side of history with us.
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Go listen to Fux, Jodie, try taking a hike in the land you suggest to be unworthy of protection, or maybe, maybe, when Tinkerbell breaks 300lb, you'll go climbing and share a bit of it. otherwise you can continue (not/failing, etc) trying to explain to me why the land that i value for virginal rock and primal experiences lose out to your need for an antiquated, finite resource to be removed so you can try and wash off the stink of failed outdoorsman.
cheers Jodie . 🤠
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Don Paul
Mountain climber
Denver CO
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Looks to me there will be two different kinds of legal challenges, by the tribes (Bear Ears) and by environmentalists (Escalante). Both should be tied up in court for years, because the whole area of law is uncertain, and a court would probably issue an injunction to preserve the status quo. Hopefully long enough to elect a different president - Trump didn't even visit these two places on his trip. I see this as a local Utah issue, but there is no national movement to wipe out the national parks.
I am still disturbed by the maps and what people are calling "Bears Ears" goes almost all the way to Moab. It looks like they want to extend the Moab sprawl along 191 south to Bluff. It looks like Indian Creek was spared but I want to see some more detailed maps.
For Escalante, regardless of the acreage I hope there are no open pit mines, which is all we seem to have in Colorado. The other problem with mining is that they never clean up the mess. That is what I hope the environmentalist lawyers would be working on.
Check out these google images of the Cerrejon and Drummond coal mines in Colombia.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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fatdad with all respect, I am doubtful of that legal argument. It's something that could be researched, but it seems to me that the power to designate is the power to un-designate.
There are a number of such limitations on the President. To just name one, the President can pardon a federal lawbreaker. Subsequent Presidents cannot withdraw that.
One of the jokes going around during Watergate, went along with your thinking. Since President Nixon had the Constitutional power to convene a meeting of Congress, as they carried on impeachment proceedings, he could call an emergency RECESS of Congress. No one believed it was so.
A minister can pronounce a couple man and wife. That minister cannot dissolve a marriage.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Heidi & I have been visiting the SE Utah places that briefly became Bear's Ears National Monument, almost every spring since 2000.
It is a rare, beautiful, & fragile area that has been grazed, farmed, logged, mined, & drilled, all with lasting damage, but no lasting economic success. No matter, Trump & his supporters demand it be exploited some more.
Every old drill hole is in bulldozed areas & covered with introduced weeds. Every old 640 acre dry farm is abandoned, but they do grow superb tumbleweeds. The pinyon pines are too small for commercial lumber, but the locals do enjoy logging them for firewood. The cows seek shade in the hot summer months & crowd into the overhanging alcoves the Anasazis built in. Any ruin that cows can climb into has been leveled in the last 130 years of grazing. Happily, all the mines were just prospect holes in unproductive sandstone.
May any here that want more development of this area, be afflicted with boils & pestilence, as I also wish on Trump & his ilk.
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Lituya
Mountain climber
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Aw sh#t, can't help myself.
Hey Jody, don't you just love the way these watermelon greenies who live in urban bubbles get all "states-rights" about gun control, immigration, sanctuary, etc.--but when it comes to big fed western land-grabbin, well, they couldn't give two shits about a representative process or what the local "hicks" want?
The good news is that the autocratic edicts these lib drones prefer to live under are just as easily undone. For now.
The dirty little secret is that righties love open space and wilderness just as much--probably more--than lib urbanites and your average Taos/Jackson/Telluride/Boulder/Sun River/Leavenworth fantasy-land, well-funded bubble nut. The righties just seem to care about democracy too. Oh, the shame.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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You go Lituyu! After all, you've been posting here since Nov. 17th & actually made a climbing related post, along with another 59 or so on political threads.
But who's counting, it's all about your Trump-given rights to bash liberals on blog sites!
Have another beer & feel gud about yourself.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Nice shots Fritz. We enjoyed a brief tour of GSENM this spring, but had the kids in tow, including our youngest, who was only 6 at the time, so were pretty limited in what we could explore. Beautiful country.
I'd love get back and explore more, before the strip miners (I mean god fearin' capitalist heroes) move in, block off access and make a mineral toilet out of the place.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Aw sh#t, can't help myself.
Hey Jody, don't you just love the way these watermelon greenies who live in urban bubbles get all "states-rights" about gun control, immigration, sanctuary, etc.--but when it comes to big fed western land-grabbin, well, they couldn't give two shits about a representative process or what the local "hicks" want?
The good news is that the autocratic edicts these lib drones prefer to live under are just as easily undone. For now.
The dirty little secret is that righties love open space and wilderness just as much--probably more--than lib urbanites and your average Taos/Jackson/Telluride/Boulder/Sun River/Leavenworth fantasy-land, well-funded bubble nut. The righties just seem to care about democracy too. Oh, the shame.
Typical response of a conservative. Always respond with an ad hominem attack. That's the extent of their vocabulary.
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