Bears ears to be cut by 80%

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Ksolem

Trad climber
Monrovia, California
Dec 4, 2017 - 09:10pm PT
can-donald-trump-get-rid-national-monument-protect/

Highlights:

Squillace told us that the Antiquities Act is silent on a president’s power to withdraw a designation. If Congress had wanted to allow that, based on other bills passed at the time, Squillace said it would have done so.

He said two laws, the Pickett Act of 1910 and a 1897 Forest Service law, specifically said a president "may vacate altogether" any order that set aside land under those acts.

Ruple echoed that point and said Congress "clearly knew that was an option and how to do it, if they had wanted to."

Basically, the argument goes that through both the 1906 and the 1976 laws, Congress was making sure that it retained final say over protected lands. If a president protected a block of land, only Congress had the authority to reverse it.
Don Paul

Mountain climber
Denver CO
Dec 4, 2017 - 09:23pm PT
When Bill Clinton created Grand Staircase - Escalante, his proclamation went on for several pages, listing the objects to be protected. Something Donald Trump should have read in advance. Then:

Now, Therefore, I, William J. Clinton, President of the United States of America, by the authority vested in me by section 2 of the Act of June 8, 1906 (34 Stat. 225, 16 U.S.C. 431), do proclaim that there are hereby set apart and reserved as the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument, for the purpose of protecting the objects identified above, all lands and interests in lands owned or controlled by the United States within the boundaries of the area described on the document entitled "Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument" attached to and forming a part of this proclamation. The Federal land and interests in land reserved consist of approximately 1.7 million acres, which is the smallest area compatible with the proper care and management of the objects to be protected.

So, President Clinton already identified in great detail what objects were to be protected, and the smallest compatible area. On what basis does President Trump think a smaller area would protect the same objects? Particularly the Kaiparowits Plateau, where the coal is. One way to challenge any government agency action is on the basis that it is arbitrary.
Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Dec 4, 2017 - 09:51pm PT
As is the Trump witch hunt
No, thanks to your boy's poor behavior, that's the gift that keeps on giving. I'm sure he has a bottomless closet of skeletons. Pity you don't see that.
Lituya

Mountain climber
Dec 4, 2017 - 09:56pm PT
I'm sure he has a bottomless closet of skeletons. Pity you don't see that.

No doubt. So did Hillary. Probably far more. But those were the choices.
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Dec 5, 2017 - 04:04am PT
Now On to The Arctic Tragedy, that will un-fold






feralfae

Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery

Dec 4, 2017 - 06:22pm PT
This is sort of long, but please contact your congress critters about this if you are so inclined, to have it stricken from the bill even now. It has been brought to the attention of Survival International, as it was rather hidden in the tax cut bill (no comment) and it is a violation of the agreement that First People's lands that were turned over for NWRs would remain pristine. It is a betrayal of the government, federal and state. Of course, AK has the most corrupt state government of any. Google it! I think Kentucky may be fifth. Anyway, here is the letter we have to share with everyone we think might have an interest. Thank you.
ff


On behalf of the Alaska Friends Conference, the Representative Committee reached unity on the following statement of support.

November 27, 2017

“Let Love be the first motion.” – John Woolman

“It is essential to show special care for indigenous communities and their cultural traditions. They are not merely one minority among others, but should be the principal dialogue partners, especially when large projects affecting their land are proposed. For them, land is not a commodity but rather a gift from God and from their ancestors who rest there, a sacred space with which they need to interact if they are to maintain their identity and values. When they remain on their land, they themselves care for it best. Nevertheless, in various parts of the world, pressure is being put on them to abandon their homelands to make room for agricultural or mining projects which are undertaken without regard for the degradation of nature and culture." - Pope Francis in his message from the Encyclical Laudato Si’ “On care for our common home,” #146

Urgent Greetings to Friends Everywhere,

In the spirit of love for this land called Alaska and sensitivity to the interconnected web of all life that live here, we of the Alaska Friends Conference (Quakers), invite you to stand with us in solidarity with the Gwich’in people (see http://ourarcticrefuge.org/take-action/,);; the Episcopal Church and other faith groups in opposition to proposed oil exploration and development in the Coastal Plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, a region known as the “1002 Area” in our nation’s current legislative discussions. Our call rises out of respect and deep concern:
For the Sacred and vital sources of life.
For traditional cultures and people who strive to live in harmony with their natural surroundings.
For the negative impacts that our continued dependency on fossil fuels is having on our climate, our peoples (and native cultures disproportionately,) our life forms and our lands.

We ask Friends around the world to join us in prayerful support and urgent acts of advocacy.

Unlike other areas of the North Slope currently developed for oil extraction, the Arctic National Wildlife Reserve (ANWR) lies within an area known as ““Iizhik Gwats’an Gwandaii Goodlit, “ (“The Sacred Place Where Life Begins”) to the Gwich’in People who have subsisted on the areas’ resources for thousands of years. The Porcupine Caribou Herd, the foundation of the Gwich’ins’ subsistence culture and way of life, uses this area for birthing and nursing their young. For the Gwich’in People, the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge was created in part because this area is Sacred.

We live in challenging times in Alaska; acutely aware of the devastating instability of our climate yet largely dependent on the fossil fuel development that drives it. In Alaska Friends Conference we see the injustice and unsustainability in this balance. We seek examples for living in harmony with our surroundings, to develop ties and traditions in keeping with this place. We are moved by the deeply rooted knowledge, respect and reverence the Gwich’in people hold for the places where they strive to live. In keeping with Pope Francis’ message above, when Gwich’in people express grave concerns for human impacts on the sensitive ecosystem of the Arctic Refuge Coastal Plain, we receive their concerns with no less weight than we would hear Catholics speak of the Vatican, or Jews of Jerusalem, or Muslims of Mecca or any other people with regard to their sacred, tradition- and culture-bearing sites. We are moved to accompany them.

We recognize that not all Alaska Native groups are of a single mind on this issue. In the absence of clear consensus, we are ultimately left to discern a path forward based on our own principles and understanding of Truth. In discouraging further oil extraction, in protecting the Arctic Coastal Plain and the Porcupine Caribou Herd that is dependent on this area, in standing with the Gwich’in Nation, which encompasses both Alaskan and Canadian villages and other Alaska Natives and residents who have deep spiritual and cultural ties to this same area, this call reflects our understanding of Love in the Greater Good.

Please, join us in prayer and advocacy. We would be happy to answer questions, or for further information, contact the Gwich’in Steering Committee directly at http://ourarcticrefuge.org/.

On behalf of Alaska Friends Conference (Quakers),
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Dec 5, 2017 - 05:15am PT
There are already environmental laws in place that CAN'T be reversed or ignored that require mining clean-up, pollution control, etc.

Nope, the DNR regularly waves the reclamation bonds here (“too onerous” or some other such BS), so when these poorly thought out endeavors go teats up the taxpayers are left holding the bag.

The book cliffs are riddled with these leftovers, enough of them that my brother has a full time job assessing sites in order to prioritize them so that when the Feds force the state to do its job, the meager funds they cough up can be used on the most pressing cases first(like the one the canucks left. Bolted when they realized it wasn’t feasible, left the waste water pit open. When my brother was out checking the site it had caught a few deer, a cow and a dozen or so birds).
Don Paul

Mountain climber
Denver CO
Dec 5, 2017 - 05:46am PT
^ somewhere in my legal theorizing I said that a govt action could be challenged if it is arbitrary. Unfortunately I was thinking of the APA, which doesn't apply to executive orders. (it does apply to Dept of Interior) The "proclamations" that establish the national monuments appear to be executive orders, rather than agency actions subject to APA review. The legal test for challenging executive orders is in the Youngstown Sheet & Tube case, which is not very fun to read, but basically says that the President can't just "do something" without a legal basis. I think this is why the environmentalists who already filed suit are not making environmental law arguments, but arguments about the authorization the president has under the Antiquities Act. I think Trump has a good chance of winning and expanding the power of the presidency, as George W Bush liked to do. John Yoo is even involved.
10b4me

Mountain climber
Retired
Dec 5, 2017 - 07:45am PT
Have to add Patagonia and REI to my list of boycotted businesses. They won't miss me though, don't

I don't believe you. How are the donuts this morning?
thebravecowboy

climber
The Good Places
Dec 5, 2017 - 07:51am PT
leave it an ex-cop to thoroughly understand the way that mining and reclamation work. Jody I bet you thoroughly understand the poisoning of the Alamosa, the cyanide in the Rio Grande, the fact that your/our tax dollars are squandered in such situations (while the company just walks away, free of obligation) due to the fact that the legal framework for extraction fails to cover the most marginal beginnings of even an assessment in the remediation process. Right?

Nuglet

Trad climber
Orange Murica!
Dec 5, 2017 - 08:02am PT
Tribes haves casinos and are competition to Trump's

so of course Trump is going after Indians and their land
Trashman

Trad climber
SLC
Dec 5, 2017 - 08:10am PT
In the interest of balance, I’m not a fan of the Patagonia/REI tagline if “The President Stole Your Land”. It was and is federal land, and I guess “The President just handed management of millions of acres to bumpkins who just want to drive their OHV’s wherever they want and pay below market rates for grazing rights” is less catchy.

Hopefully the bumper sticker version generates lots of donations so we can keep this in the courts for the next 4-8 years(you know, running out the clock like Bishop tried to do).
Mike Friedrichs

Sport climber
City of Salt
Dec 5, 2017 - 08:41am PT
Jody you should take the time to educate yourself. As was mentioned above, the Public Lands Initiative (PLI) that was organized by our republican representatives (Bishop, Chaffetz) was a long, long process. They ultimately recommended a national monument for what became Bears Ears that had borders almost identical to what was protected by President Obama. They never could get the bill out of committee for a vote. So Obama acted and basically protected what they had recommended.

Suddenly, because it was done by a black democrat, it changed from a GOP recommended protected area to a "land grab."

The whole signing yesterday was a circus. They picked one paid off Indian, who happens to be on the San Juan county council to "speak" for all Native Americans. The five tribe coalition came together after 80 years of conflict over this issue and was united in wanting Bears Ears protected by a monument.

Polls showed that 88% of Utahns support the monument. Who are the "locals" whose lifestyles will be affected? Who represents me? Zinke said he met with the locals. Apparently he doesn't consider Native Americans people because he never met with them. The hand picked sycophantic crowd in the Capital rotunda was picked to make Trump look good.

For Trump, this isn't about energy development. It's about appeasing his demographic -- a small minority of low educated, racist, rural people who are very afraid of a changing world. It's about politics, appeasing Hatch and Bishop and Herbert and the rest of the cronies from Utah. Seeing their smug faces makes me ill.
Nuglet

Trad climber
Orange Murica!
Dec 5, 2017 - 08:52am PT
Tribes haves casinos and are competition to Trump's

so of course Trump is going after Indians and their land
anita514

Gym climber
Great White North
Dec 5, 2017 - 08:55am PT
Trump retards are always good for a laugh

Fat Dad

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Dec 5, 2017 - 09:03am PT
Thanks for the insights Don. I'll have to wade through that when the opportunity presents itself.
Re Lituya's comments:
No doubt. So did Hillary. Probably far more.
Republicans like Jody sure like to believe this, but it's just that--speculation. There have been alot of allegations about the Clintons, and alot of investigating, but little substantive reported. There were more hearings held on Benghazi than Watergate and nothing to show for all that political theater, and yet the right still believe something untoward happened for which Hillary should be held accountable. There is almost an equal amount of talk of the Clinton Foundation but, again, little hard evidence of any wrongdoing.

In contrast, we KNOW alot about Trump's illicit behavior--both during the election, in office and with his foundation--and it fails to register. I fail to see people of Jody's ilk actually troubled by ethics. Rather, it's something that only applies the other side. The Roy Moores of the world get a pass because somehow just being a democrat is worse than being a child molester.
c wilmot

climber
Dec 5, 2017 - 09:07am PT
They never could get the bill out of committee for a vote


probably because its a dumb idea to put federal land under a new designation when they have historically failed to adequately fund the agency's in charge of maintaining and protecting said lands...

All this talk about preservation is pretty pointless when we fail to preserve and protect what we already have






Lituya

Mountain climber
Dec 5, 2017 - 11:51am PT

You are right Lituya...and I have known for years that it is useless to try and convey a little common sense to these people. It is pretty much a lost cause as the haters are going to hate, and the chicken littler's are going to keep causing the sky to fall...but it does keep my blood flowing to argue with them.

It might be a bit more interesting if there were ever an original thought among them. Or even a bit of nuance from time to time. I’ll hand it to ‘em though, they do a good job drumming the orthodoxy.

Mike Friedrichs

Sport climber
City of Salt
Dec 6, 2017 - 09:01am PT
http://www.sltrib.com/opinion/bagley/2017/12/06/bagley-cartoon-the-lost-tribes/
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Dec 6, 2017 - 02:13pm PT
Well, all you "Protect Bear's Ears" protesters now have Indian Creek National Monument.

All it is going to take to end climbing in Indian Creek is one particular (Dabneyesque) bureaucrat to take offense at the bright colored rap slings or the chalk or the trails and ,...... POOF!



(you heard it here first)
Hobo Greg

Trad climber
ISELIN
Dec 6, 2017 - 02:34pm PT
To all the Repiglicans who say Obama went too far (nevermind that native ruined actually asked him to create bears ears-hows that for listening to the REAL locals?), Remember that we only have the grand canyon because Theodore Roosevelt used the antiquities act to save 800,000 acres of it from being strip mined, all because Congress wouldn't make it a national park. Would you like reverse that as well?
Messages 61 - 80 of total 169 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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