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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Jody prognosticating on the future of strangers. love it. make sure to shake up the magic eightball every now and then dude.
this is my turf not yours Jody, so I suppose your ass may be your hat
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Krease
Gym climber
the inferno
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why is Donald drumpf such a stupid piece of shyt? why is ryan zinke the head of the department of the interior. how many petitions were sent to this oil and mining shill begging him to reconsider the designation of bear's ears? these people, along with that fuk scott Pruitt, are environmental marauders who need to be kicked out on their a55es.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Krease...don't worry ...they'll end up like that kook Watts....Gone and forgotten...
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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how many petitions were sent
Don't worry, they are not wasted. They will be the basis of enhanced IRS scrutiny and deletion from voting roles. Thanks for the information.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Trump had promised him he would open the Grand Staircase monument to coal mining.
Trump is the Steampunk President.
He'll be frothing for hydrogen gas dirigibles pretty soon. And also diesel submarines.
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maddog69
Trad climber
CO
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Rob Bishop introduced HR 3990 two months ago. It could pass before the end of year but IT WILL PASS.
The bill rewrites the Antiquities Act to remove any of the legal roadbloacks to elimination of public lands as mentioned in this thread.
One likely big picture pathway is that they will centralize all public federal lands and start reducing them. Generally using as a template the centralization of federal law enforcement they accomplished under Bush with the creation of DHS.
In any case the legal arguements are moot - They own the three branches so they can do whatever they want.
The greatest (and imho the darkest) sea shift in American political history occured when Trump got elected and they retained control of congress: It is naive to pretend otherwise.
The Internationally financed Republicans won kids, unequivocally and irreversibly. Protests mean nothing, other than if you participate you will get flagged into the security monitoring system. (They really, really, really don`t care if you tele . . .)
These interests have been fighting since watergate to get to this point, it is a long complex dynamic but the bottom line is they are not going to soften, cave, relent or yield their power anytime soon.
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c wilmot
climber
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They have actually been fighting for this since FDR was forced to throw some scraps at the masses with his implementation of the new deal programs
The violent mass protests that led to such actions during the Great Depression have largely been scrubbed from public record...
This is quite bi partisan- it's why obama kept adding monuments even after trump had been elected
The whole right vs left is just silly theatre to distract an increasingly gullible public into thinking you have some form of control- you don't. And you never will
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maddog69
Trad climber
CO
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When I reference Watergate my intention was to highlight that it is in many case the very same actual people who have been pursuing these agenda frameworks.
Fox News, for example, was originally going to be the White House official press network run from the Oval Office - Roger Ailles was on Nixon's commo team.
Donald Trump, in another example, was the funding source who bought the first arms shipments delivered to the (currently still in power) Iraninan Islamic revolutionaries, paying them in arms so that they would not release American hostages while a Democrat was President, thus sabotaging an election and kick starting the Iran Contra scandals..
My point being that in some aspects this is not about historical left vs right ideology. (The public land uses they are radicalizing here, for extraction industry and cattle grazing, are flat-out socialism under their rules.) In other words they are proudly discconnected from any morally or ethically bound historical timelines. This is about obsessions with power, abject greeed and hatred for anyone who has ever stood in their way.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jody SteveP...I am not concerned about it because it won't happen. It isn't going to happen in the scenic areas of Bear's Ears either. In fact, I doubt if any of you notice any changes in the areas you are likely to frequent.
Well, I was down in the Dead Horse Point area outside of Moab two months ago. The number of rigs there has certainly multiplied. Including some lit up at night interfering with photos I wanted to shoot. I wouldn't frankly be all that surprised to see some of that creep into the Bear's Ears area.
And the Kaiparowits Plateau in GSNM has been a major target for coal mining. That is one of the reasons it was protected in the first place. And you're right, at the current price and technology level for coal mining, it probably won't be developed. But if that's the case, why not leave the monument the way it is instead of promising extractive industry jobs?
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Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
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In other words they are proudly discconnected from any morally or ethically bound historical timelines. This is about obsessions with power, abject greeed and hatred for anyone who has ever stood in their way.
Fortunately such ideological paradigms ultimately do not succeed; The current manifestation is skating on extremely thin ice.
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Keith Reed
climber
Johnson county TX
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 4, 2017 - 06:41am PT
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It seems like it’s simple asset stripping from the American people.
If it was so valuable before then why had no one developed the oil/gas/other assets before?
Remoteness, lack of industrial quantities of water, not recoverable at market price? All of this I suspect.
Why should we sell it for developers at low to record low (for coal) prices ?
How have the above problems been avoided?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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What's wrong with public/congressional input/environmental reviews BEFORE establishing these huge monuments? Yeah, nice try. You know (or should know) the answer to your question. Congressional republicans will never agree to any environmental proposal offered up by the democrats. The republicans have gone from the party of TR (and even Nixon, who created the Endangered Species Act, Clean Water Act, etc.) to the party that only sees the environment as a source of exploitation.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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What's wrong with public/congressional input/environmental reviews BEFORE establishing these huge monuments?
Nothing. And at least in the case of Bear's Ears, there were extensive ones done. Look at the link I provided above. Bear's Ears is pretty close to the Public Lands Initiative proposed by members of Utah's congressional delegation. Only when the GOP wouldn't bring that up for a vote did Obama decide to act.
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Trashman
Trad climber
SLC
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Lovely, as climbing continues to expand in user numbers we’re crowded out of formerly quiet areas, but still don’t have enough clout to actually accomplish anything.
All of the negatives of growth with none of the benefits.
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Krease
Gym climber
the inferno
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It seems like the republicans have become a parody of what they used to represent. That, or just flat out, semi-comically evil. Of course, drumpf is THEIR candidate, so I guess there's that. When did they go so tragically wrong?
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