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WBraun
climber
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Feb 13, 2018 - 12:49pm PT
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Do any of you really believe that "we" can fix this self-made mess?
Everything can be fixed ultimately.
But only when you behave.
In this day and age, 90% do not behave and thus suffer the effects of those consequences.
We are NOT the owners of this planet, we are not even the owners of our own material bodies.
We are all basically operating in illusion.
Even the so-called scientists .......
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Feb 15, 2018 - 04:56pm PT
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Just want to pull one more Ron Anderson,We have had the third thaw this winter. We have little snowpack and it was 62 degrees today.
The third month in a row with an over 60 degree day.
Unlike Ron, I know weather is not climate.
Geology degree,but listen to Sketch.
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Feb 15, 2018 - 04:58pm PT
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Nobody Cares
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Lennox
climber
in the land of the blind
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Feb 15, 2018 - 05:49pm PT
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Nobody Cares
There was this scene in the movie Serenity where they went to the planet of Miranda where the government {newworld(dis)order} will love this and found that the government had gassed the populace with something to supposedly make them happier and more easygoing with their fellow humans. But it actually made them so passive so that they didn't care about anything at all so that they just lay down and died--except for a very small minority called "Reavers" who became hyper-agressive.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Feb 15, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
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Wilbeer... Assuming you're in NY...? I thought you guys were getting buried..? Same scenario out west here...plenty of high 50 days and 20% of normal on snow...The big high pressure of not long ago is back...If not for snow making there would be limited skiing...
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Feb 16, 2018 - 06:14am PT
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Rj,we have had a bunch but ,none of it has stuck around long at all.
I have never seen such melt offs. The Dacks above 3k have a bit left ,but if warm rains continue,it will all be gone ,quickly.
Middle of February and more rain than snow.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Feb 16, 2018 - 06:41am PT
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Ice climbing in this region is really hit or miss now. Even 10-20 years ago it was generally great and very consistent.
More reason to get into mixed stuff!
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Feb 17, 2018 - 01:35pm PT
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My analogy is that climate change is like the early stages of emphysema.
Is the patient going to cold turkey quite smoking. Probably not. But any reduction in the number of cigarettes a day gives the patient a better future than business as usual.
Law of diminishing returns, and how secondary effects impact body systems, suggest that reducing (instead of ceasing) smoking, will have minimal positive impact on one's quality of life. Moreover, a half-assed effort will probably increase cognitive dissonance.
I'm not sure we can increase the level of cognitive dissonance above what we already have. A few half-assed measures certainly aren't going to save us from ourselves.
But, for instance, if global warming had never been an issue, the amount of electricity from coal, both now and into the future, would have been significantly higher. Solar and wind have gotten to the point where they can compete with coal in some markets even without a subsidy or a CO2 tax on coal. But that would not have happened near as quickly without the subsidies they did get.
The life expectancy of a coal plant is measured in decades. By not building anymore, we have bought a little more time without killing our economy or causing every single job to move to China, like some would have had you believe.
But do I think we are still going to smoke ourselves to death. Probably.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Feb 18, 2018 - 12:13pm PT
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Lennox, I liked the battery operated line in Serenity.
Anybody read Jeremy Rifkin's The Third Industrial Revolution?
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BobSFrankNose
Social climber
Seattle
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Feb 20, 2018 - 01:24pm PT
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With all of the new 'cut and paste' info from Malemute, I thought I would throw one recent article (2017) out for Maly's interpretation and/or instant declaration of bullsh#t.
Apparently, the basis of climate alarmist is pretty much centered on the 'hockey stick'. This article below shows that Michael 'hockey stick' Mann is still under contempt of court in Canada (Canada - who would have thought Canada - under the dictatorship of a failed high school drama couch - Justinian Trudeau).
Yeah, seems that another scientist (Dr. Timothy Ball) with equal if not better qualifications and background seems to think that Mann needs to produce his data (as in evidence). Mann says it is his own intellectual property, but it was gathered at the public expense - so it's not his.
What is Mann hiding if he is so right and 97% of scientist concur?
And right behind Ball are several others with law suits pending for Mann to 'hand over the data - dude'!
Most of you won't read even the first paragraph of the article (why wouldn't you??), so not expecting anything but hate and criticism back to me. But, for those real scientist, legal minded and critical thinkers - this might cause some pause in your appalling determination to school us skeptics.
https://principia-scientific.org/breaking-fatal-courtroom-act-ruins-michael-hockey-stick-mann/
I'll take Richard Lindzen PhD, Timothy Ball PhD and Judith Curry PhD over Michael Mann and Phil Jones most days - they've got nothing to hide, nothing to gain, no celebrity status, no government grants and have not been exposed by emails (of all things).
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Feb 20, 2018 - 01:35pm PT
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https://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Richard_S._Lindzen
Dr. Richard S. Lindzen ( b. February 8, 1940) is the Alfred P. Sloan Professor of Meteorology, Department of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology[1]
He is funded by fossil fuel interests, such as Peabody Coal.[2]
However, analysis of Peabody Energy court documents showed that the fossil fuel company backed Lindzen,[2] proving that Lindzen was lying.
Lindzen's science was so bad, it was discarded by an energy group.
An internal document (pdf) of the Global Climate Coalition (GCC) -- an industry front group that disbanded in 2002 -- reviewed some of the "contrarian" arguments used by Lindzen and other climate change skeptics that they later discarded.
However, the GCC's science advisers noted that this argument had been disproven to the point that Lindzen himself had ceased to use it.
However, the data supporting this hypothesis is weak, and even Lindzen has stopped presenting it as an alternative to the conventional model of climate change,
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BobSFrankNose
Social climber
Seattle
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Feb 20, 2018 - 04:08pm PT
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Thanks Monolith, seriously, I mean it. Thanks for the information. Your link does not connect (might want to fix that), but I found the article anyway quickly. I like to get the PRO's and Con's and make a slightly informed opinion. I will reconsider Richard Lindzen as a fully credible source and take into consideration that he is or was tied to the coal industry.
I have found the info on https://www.skepticalscience.com/ very valuable - because they take every question or negative and explains it with facts why it is not real or true. I'm open to every explanation and - for me - it goes on for hours and hours and hours of reading.
Side note: Does any bio regarding Michael Mann state that he is sponsored or funded by the IPCC or any other governmental agencies with an agenda? Who has paid for his research and affected what he has to say. Who is he tied to - certainly not the coal industry.
What do you make of the current contempt of court of Mann? Is Judith Curry or Tim Ball any better?
Serious question: Would you discredit all of the hundreds of respected or peer reviewed scientist that aren't alarmed (they may not be deniers, just not yet alarmed that it is the most critical thing in the world [Bernie Sanders, et al])
The internet has list of prominent people, their bio's, their education and published works, etc., etc and they seem to be not on board with to what degree this is anthropogentic and (more importantly), of that percentage, what can we as citizens stop, reverse or fix. That's sort of the bottom line with me.
And . . . . regarding Splater's list of current prophecies, one only need look at his first link: The Window is Closing to Avoid Dangerous Global Warming, and think to themselves - by 2015 the 'water will be up to Midtown Manhattan', and dozen's of other ridiculous and false predictions to get us all saying the science is settled.
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BobSFrankNose
Social climber
Seattle
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Feb 20, 2018 - 04:14pm PT
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And, Splater, I agree that the earth is warming - duh! I have a thermostat and I watch the news. So put me in with your list of non'deniers.
But, to what extent is the earth CURRENTLY warming, is it significant for 100 years? 200 years?, or is it significant for the geological time clock. Like no other warm periods, no other cold periods, god provides us with a constant temperature as long as we are righteous and don't pollute?
Come on Splater - you can do better!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 20, 2018 - 04:55pm PT
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Would you discredit all of the hundreds of respected or peer reviewed scientist that aren't alarmed (they may not be deniers, just not yet alarmed that it is the most critical thing in the world [Bernie Sanders, et al])
No, no, Nooooooo! You can't ask such reasonable questions!
There is ONE "fact" here, and it is very simple: ALL reasonable, sensible, PC people agree that there is global-warming, it is almost entirely human-caused, the USA must initiate sweeping and profoundly invasive policies to reverse it, because if not, then humankind is doomed to a horrible extinction within about 10-20 years.
(That's a bit of a straw-man for effect, but not by much. Personally, I think that the globe IS warming, not by as much as the models project, and that it's mostly a natural cycle not as closely tied to and caused by increasing CO2 as SOME scientists believe, and that it's gonna be a wonderful thing for the planet in general as it happens, notwithstanding its inconvenience to a relatively small subset of the human population.)
That's why, per the OP question, I'm not more concerned about it.
That said, I'm on the same page with the "really-concerned" regarding reduction of so-called "greenhouse gasses," more because of the policies they are symptomatic of, which explains why I share their desire to do things like encourage vegetarianism, a halt to the mowing down of rainforest acres (acres that get primarily converted to cattle ranching), serious expenditure of resources to promote/develop modern nuclear energy, etc. But my motivation is to get us off of fossil fuel asap, for all the benefits that policy has regardless of the "threat" of global warming.
Thus, people with entirely different beliefs/motivations can end up sharing the same "results" desires, even though we might continue to disagree about the best policies to accomplish those results.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Feb 20, 2018 - 05:17pm PT
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Madbolter...Why do you think it's a natural cycle...?
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Feb 20, 2018 - 05:40pm PT
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71 today , broke a 1996 record of 62 ,which broke a record of 48 in 1924.
February, all snowpack is gone.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Feb 20, 2018 - 06:18pm PT
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Madbolter...Why do you think it's a natural cycle...?
I don't think that "it's a natural cycle." I think that much/most of the warming can be attributed to the natural cycle. It remains an open question how much of warming can be attributed to human activity. Thus, it remains an open question how much humans can "correct" the trend.
On both of those questions, there is not even close to a consensus, even among those scientists that are convinced that there is a genuine warming trend. For example, there's a huge difference between a person thinking that human activity accounts for 80% of the warming trend compared to a person thinking it accounts for 20%. And even determining those percentages is a tendentious project.
But, as I said, to me those questions are virtually irrelevant because I believe that most of the changes that, shall I say, "change advocates" want I also want--for their own reasons/benefits!
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wilbeer
Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
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Feb 20, 2018 - 06:24pm PT
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The world and its future just wants to say thanks for your view,really.
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