Climate Change: Why aren't more people concerned about it?

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EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Apr 13, 2019 - 02:28pm PT
monolith

climber
state of being
Apr 13, 2019 - 03:08pm PT
BASE104

Social climber
An Oil Field
Apr 14, 2019 - 10:28am PT
https://www.yahoo.com/news/bering-sea-changes-startle-scientists-worry-residents-160703816.htmlhttp://"]https://www.yahoo.com/news/bering-sea-changes-startle-scientists-worry-residents-160703816.htmlhttp://


Stories like the one above flit past us like gnats. We ignore them.

I admire Malemute's sincerity. Our changing climate is far more serious than the typical person understands, and the cost will be much worse than what they are fed as results of this planetary experiment. Rising sea level will be the least of our problems.

The fossil fuel lobby, along with a bunch of right wing idiots who have bought into their less than stellar record of high end peer review, cloud the issue in a manner almost exactly like the one that the tobacco lobby used before. And it worked for decades.

Our carbon and methane emissions are simple and measurable data points. So is the warming that we see in the Arctic, which is much higher than lower latitudes. Unfortunately, we as a species have never been able to take the long view. We cannot restrict our actions based on a punishment that most of us will not live to see.

We will see a lot, though. Even when we reach 2 degrees of warming, the planet will see profound changes.

This isn't just a problem of displaced population, nor population, although both are parts of the effect. It is our behavior that is most out of sync with reality.

We can act. The majority of the world even agrees that we should act. Unfortunately, it is too late to prevent disaster. At this point it is mitigation.

We need to stop screwing like rabbits, and reduce our carbon emissions by a great deal. Even with the Paris agreement, we won't halt our exponential increase.

That is another weakness of humans. The inability to understand an exponential function or equation. You can't keep growing forever. An experiment in a petri dish can illustrate that within a week or less.

Those who actively campaign to obscure the observations and numerical modeling are truly evil human beings. Not that evil human beings have ever been in short supply.

I would buy land in Saskatchewan. In the mean time, I use less fuel. I drive an old civic, and fill up every few months at best. The real pain will come with air travel. It is by far the most carbon expensive way to move around.

I fathered one child. We should pass a law allowing every person to parent 2/3 of a child. You could trade your right if you didn't want to parent children. Having a dozen, like Mormons and Catholics, will become downright abominations. As for consumption, the only thing that can slow it down is cost, and unfortunately, our hydrocarbon accumulations are sufficient to reach 4 degrees of warming before they begin to seriously run out, forcing choices of cleaner fuels.

We could make this change tomorrow. All we need is leadership, and punishment for scientific lies. Lies like the tobacco companies used.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Apr 14, 2019 - 10:57am PT
That is another weakness of humans. The inability to understand an exponential function or equation. You can't keep growing forever. An experiment in a petri dish can illustrate that within a week or less.

I don't see it at a "weakness," it is a well established biological imperative, metabolism leads to reproduction leads to increased metabolism which, in tern leads to increased reproduction.

There are certainly human perspectives on this, but it the consequences are predictable by "simple" ecology, however we'd like to dress them up in societal, religious, philosophical or economical clothing.

In some ways we are a hopeful species, and that is due in large part to our belief that we'll find a way to overcome the difficulties, whatever they will be.

Access to energy is necessary for all metabolism, and there are a large number ways that access has evolved, the "fitness landscape" is a harsh sieve for life and looking around we observe that life that has evolved over 4.1 billion years on its success at getting that energy, we are no different.

Interestingly to my mind is the success we've had in scavenging the energy from organisms that have spanned the history of life on Earth, at least for the past few hundred million years. And the possibility that we could scavenge all of it in a couple of hundred years.

The twist in this particular story being that we could not survive the consequences of burning all of that fuel if we exhaust the combustion products into the atmosphere.

Figuring out ways to avoid exhausting the products will greatly increase the cost of that energy source. Replacing that source of energy requires the expenditure of energy, it is not clear just what the margins are and it is the margins that will determine whether or not humans will succeed.

The margins are slim for all life, photosynthesis has a 3-6% efficiency for the conversion of light to chemical energy available to the organism for all of the life functions.

Can humans increase this efficiency? and in a manner that the entire process return a net positive energy balance.

It's not clear, but of course we are hopeful.

wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
Apr 15, 2019 - 06:40pm PT
Great post Ed,we are hopeful.

It reminds me of a post years ago you directed at me about the percentage of renewables being used at the time.

You did not see that as hopeful,if memory suits me well.

Just seeing the numbers, I am curious to what those numbers read today,or,now.

Hopeful,Indeed.
clifff

Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
Apr 19, 2019 - 12:23pm PT
The Wayback Machine:

Climate Change skeptics? 2009 uncensored

https://web.archive.org/web/20100209023829/http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/970221/Climate_Change_skeptics_ot

also: http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/970221/Climate-Change-skeptics-ot
what still remains
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Apr 23, 2019 - 09:39am PT

https://news.yahoo.com/one-million-species-risk-extinction-due-humans-draft-131407174.html


Your kids' quality of life is going to be poor.

To say the least.

I don’t know how any educated person can bring a child into the world in this day and age, and still have a clean conscience.
August West

Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
Apr 23, 2019 - 01:11pm PT
^^^^

Da Nile isn't just a river in Egypt.

Not much of a silver lining, but I do hope future grand kids can track down all the vicious climate denial and trolling their grand parents did.
Minerals

Social climber
The Deli
Apr 24, 2019 - 08:50pm PT

Well, we’ve lost Malemute now too. Bummer. He posted on another thread earlier today, asking for RJ to delete all of his posts and his account. This thread shows 3,060 posts on the listing of forum topics, but there are now 2,272 posts on the thread, plus this one. So Malemute posted to this thread 788 times. Thanks for all of the info, Malemute; I learned a lot.
clifff

Mountain climber
golden, rollin hills of California
May 6, 2019 - 11:54am PT
The Arctic ice is set to disappear. Drastic climate warming will then start.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BiJMNcugkG8/XM0jWkQkuBI/AAAAAAAAaOU/d2kEdkLC-2gnIE8g52s5wd0IEYnYGc21wCLcBGAs/s1600/Figure4real.png

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/

http://arctic-news.blogspot.com/

“We are hurtling towards the Blue Ocean Event (BOE) in the Arctic. Nobody knows for sure when it will happen. From my analysis, which I discuss in this video, my best guess is that the BOE will happen in 2022. After this BOE happens, then what will follow in subsequent years? I think that by BOE+2 years the Arctic Ocean will be ice free for August, September, and October. By BOE+4 years it will be ice free for 5 months, and by BOE+10 years the Arctic Ocean will be free of sea ice year round.” – Paul Beckwith, Climate Systems Scientist

http://www.scientistswarning.org/wiki/blue-ocean-event/
jogill

climber
Colorado
May 6, 2019 - 03:03pm PT
Because the world will end twelve years from now. Someone said this recently, I believe.

;>(
wilbeer

Mountain climber
Terence Wilson greeneck alleghenys,ny,
May 15, 2019 - 06:14pm PT
Hey ,lookie there ,NASA has come out with a new updated graph. Same as the old graph.



Splater

climber
Grey Matter
May 16, 2019 - 11:48am PT
https://www.technologyreview.com/s/613524/these-flexible-solar-cells-bring-us-closer-to-kicking-the-fossil-fuel-habit/
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
May 16, 2019 - 11:57am PT
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/05/how-much-does-world-subsidize-oil-coal-and-gas/589000/
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
May 21, 2019 - 12:39pm PT
"We find that a global total Sea Level Rise exceeding 2 m by 2100 lies within the 90% uncertainty bounds for a high emission scenario. This is more than twice the upper value put forward by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change in the Fifth Assessment Report."

https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2019/05/14/1817205116

and of course sea level rise doesn't suddenly stop in 2100. The effect by 2300 is roughly 4 times the 2100 level.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 21, 2019 - 12:45pm PT
Global warming might be causing dogs to become depressed, say pet behaviourists

https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/global-warming-could-be-causing-dogs-to-become-depressed-say-pet-behaviourists-a6854006.html

Funny or sad?

How about a lot of both!
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
May 25, 2019 - 06:49pm PT
Republican denial is very slowly fading. (But nowhere near fast enough to take effective action)
https://skepticalscience.com/fox-news-us-hotbed-denial-kids-cure.html

https://energynews.us/2019/03/04/national/republican-claims-on-climate-change-then-and-now/

Some admit it when it aligns with their latest business plans.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/30/climate/republicans-climate-change-policies.html

Changing Minds
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/feb/03/climate-change-denial-changing-minds

https://skepticalscience.com/former-denier-wrongheaded-but-certain.html

http://thestewardsjourney.com/as-a-conservative-evangelical-republican-why-climate-change-cant-be-true-even-though-it-is/

However some remain attached to ignorance.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/23/republicans-arent-just-climate-deniers-they-deny-the-extinction-crisis-too
https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2019/05/22/Two-of-Foxs-favorite-climate-deniers-testified-before-Congress-on-UN-extinction-report/223776

More failure to act.
https://www.axios.com/climate-change-earth-temperature-change-902e2958-451b-4044-a6a3-8dab46902da6.html

The latest updated, more accurate term is "Climate Crisis"
https://electrek.co/2019/05/25/climate-crisis-weekly-sea-levels/

12 excuses for climate inaction and how to refute them
Using moral clarity to counter defeatism around the climate crisis.
https://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2019/5/17/18626825/alexandria-ocasio-cortez-greta-thunberg-climate-change
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
May 29, 2019 - 12:31pm PT
This is just one reason why carbon credit trading is a poor substitute for direct carbon fees (RNCF = revenue neutral carbon fee).

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019/may/29/trial-abandoned-because-expert-witness-had-no-expertise
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
May 31, 2019 - 09:12am PT
I'm gonna miss all this silly hysteria.
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
May 31, 2019 - 10:14am PT
"I'm gonna miss all this silly hysteria."

Yes, you wouldn't be regularly trolling on this thread if you didn't have an interest. Whereas most people have learned something here about the massive scientific findings over recent decades, there are always some who become even more determined to sanctify their own selfish wants over the needs of the many.
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