Climate Change: Why aren't more people concerned about it?

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eeyonkee

Trad climber
Golden, CO
Dec 6, 2017 - 02:07pm PT
I gotta say, I totally disagree with DMT with respect to "shill". I think that Malemute's links are absolutely a service to this thread -- just like his links on the climate change thread. It's not my style of posting, but I appreciate his obvious diligence for interesting and thoughtful content
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Dec 9, 2017 - 08:05pm PT
Malemute , Hartouni and others who post this science...Thanks...Trumps main concern is getting stroked by the Kochs and the instant gratification associated with his boys club...Nero...? For sure...
ß Î Ø T Ç H

Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
Dec 11, 2017 - 09:13pm PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Dec 12, 2017 - 11:00am PT
Flying vs driving in typical cars
Traveling either way has roughly similar climate impact per distance.

As I posted before

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2899333&msg=3001004#msg3001004

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=2899333&msg=2955450#msg2955450
Splater

climber
Grey Matter
Dec 12, 2017 - 12:39pm PT
"hypocrisy" ??

Nope. Everyone burns some fossil fuels. You would have to know how many miles per year and lots of other things to know total GHG emissions. This is just rationalization #91 in the denier handbook. We all make different choices, mostly based on economic decisions. Personal choices make only a small impact on saving the climate. Only societal decisions as a whole can make much impact on issues which are a tragedy of the commons. If enough people are concerned and some make personal green choices, this may help convince society to change policy enough to affect everyone's choices. A societal choice would be ways to disincentivize GHG emissions, and incentivize green alternatives.
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Dec 12, 2017 - 01:05pm PT
Lol.....

“The fastest decline in arctic sea ice in over 1500 years.”



http://www.arctic.noaa.gov/Report-Card
Krease

Gym climber
the inferno
Dec 12, 2017 - 09:24pm PT
hey NWO2? as soon as the machines replace fukwads like you, the better. Your boy drumpf just got his ass handed to him. I think his golf club needs shined.
AndyMan

Sport climber
CA
Dec 13, 2017 - 02:13am PT
Try a random number generator in Excel.

The longer you wait, the more extreme it gets!
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 16, 2017 - 07:47am PT
Most of the fires in CA this year were started by homeless tweakers.

No ignition = no fire.

The explosion in the homeless tweaker population has nothing to do with the changing climate.
rottingjohnny

Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
Dec 16, 2017 - 08:51am PT
Chaz...Downed power lines from high winds are also suspected in some of the fires...Not just tweakers....rj
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Dec 16, 2017 - 09:21am PT
The fires being started was not the problem, it was the hurricane- force winds that have lasted for an unusual amount of time and force, that caused the fire problem to be as bad as it's been.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Dec 16, 2017 - 09:42am PT
Santa Ana winds have always blown in December, at least for as long as I can remember.

I grew up in Fontana, on an east-west street at a T intersection with a N-S street. Every year, on the trash day after Christmas, the neighbors' used wrapping paper would blow out of their trash cans and pile up on the front of our house. That happened every year I lived there, going back to 1970.

Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 16, 2017 - 09:51am PT
Most of the fires in CA this year were started by homeless tweakers.

and you could provide references to support this? or is it just something you made up?
monolith

climber
state of being
Dec 16, 2017 - 10:16am PT
Has the vegetation been this dry in December as always Chaz?

If you look at the historical average temp, CA has warmed considerably which means dryer vegetation.
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 16, 2017 - 10:37am PT
I think that the vegetation this year, at least the grasses, were much more abundant than usual, given the wet winter of last year, and the lack of rain this year has dried it out and providing an ignition source.

So whether or not this fire year was a result of "climate change" is an interesting hypothesis to pursue, at least if you want to consider the attribution as science.

I lived in Claremont from 1964 to 1972, and indeed the Santa Anas blew during that time, no doubt about it. I also recall those winds blowing the smog out of the San Gabriel valley and providing the then season view of the mountains. A governor at the time said that the scene had always been obscured, that the aboriginal peoples had complained about it, and that it had nothing to do with car exhaust created smog. Also, the scene of snow on the front range, about 5,000 ft above my house, was pretty common. How is that scene now?
AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Dec 16, 2017 - 04:26pm PT
So in 2012 the skeptics were convinced that global warming had stopped. This was one of their main arguements.
What happened since then:
2014 was the hottest year in the current record.
2015 was warmer.
2016 set a new record.
2017 looks like it will be among the warmest.
So they have no credibility as 4 in a row is not a fluke but a sign that change is kicking in big time.

We aren't the cause?
Please let me know of another explanation.
EdwardT

Trad climber
Retired
Dec 16, 2017 - 09:32pm PT
These climate change threads are little more than tragedy porn circle jerks

Woe is us. 😱😢😥
Lennox

climber
in the land of the blind
Dec 22, 2017 - 09:49am PT
Abstract

As a result of global increases in both temperature and specific humidity, heat stress is projected to intensify throughout the 21st century. Some of the regions most susceptible to dangerous heat and humidity combinations are also among the most densely populated. Consequently, there is the potential for widespread exposure to wet bulb temperatures that approach and in some cases exceed postulated theoretical limits of human tolerance by mid- to late-century. We project that by 2080 the relative frequency of present-day extreme wet bulb temperature events could rise by a factor of 100–250 (approximately double the frequency change projected for temperature alone) in the tropics and parts of the mid-latitudes, areas which are projected to contain approximately half the world’s population. In addition, population exposure to wet bulb temperatures that exceed recent deadly heat waves may increase by a factor of five to ten, with 150–750 million person-days of exposure to wet bulb temperatures above those seen in today’s most severe heat waves by 2070–2080. Under RCP 8.5, exposure to wet bulb temperatures above 35 ◦C—the theoretical limit for human tolerance—could exceed a million person-days per year by 2080. Limiting emissions to follow RCP 4.5 entirely eliminates exposure to that extreme threshold. Some of the most affected regions, especially Northeast India and coastal West Africa, currently have scarce cooling infrastructure, relatively low adaptive capacity, and rapidly growing populations. In the coming decades heat stress may prove to be one of the most widely experienced and directly dangerous aspects of climate change, posing a severe threat to human health, energy infrastructure, and outdoor activities ranging from agricultural production to military training.

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/aaa00e/pdf
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Dec 22, 2017 - 04:06pm PT
some people say "we" will have to adapt to climate change, that people in bad places will just move to better places... of course it seems that is already happening, and the people in the places they are trying to move to are not happy about it.

http://science.sciencemag.org/content/358/6370/1610

Asylum applications respond to temperature fluctuations

Anouch Missirian, Wolfram Schlenker

Science
22 Dec 2017:
Vol. 358, Issue 6370, pp. 1610-1614
DOI: 10.1126/science.aao0432

Abstract
International negotiations on climate change, along with recent upsurges in migration across the Mediterranean Sea, have highlighted the need to better understand the possible effects of climate change on human migration—in particular, across national borders. Here we examine how, in the recent past (2000–2014), weather variations in 103 source countries translated into asylum applications to the European Union, which averaged 351,000 per year in our sample. We find that temperatures that deviated from the moderate optimum (~20°C) increased asylum applications in a nonlinear fashion, which implies an accelerated increase under continued future warming. Holding everything else constant, asylum applications by the end of the century are predicted to increase, on average, by 28% (98,000 additional asylum applications per year) under representative concentration pathway (RCP) scenario 4.5 and by 188% (660,000 additional applications per year) under RCP 8.5 for the 21 climate models in the NASA Earth Exchange Global Daily Downscaled Projections (NEX-GDDP).

Nick Danger

Ice climber
Arvada, CO
Dec 23, 2017 - 09:36am PT
I have mostly avoided posting on this topic on "the Taco" primarily because I weary of the verbal sparring between climate skeptics and folks who are somewhat better informed. That being said, I am going to indulge in a few observations and opinions of my own.

"We are seeing unprecedented changes in mean annual temperatures. Well, not actually. During the two previous glacial maximums in the middle and late Pleistocene Dansgaard-Oeschger events would involve increases in Mean annual temperatures in the northern hemisphere of 4 to 5 degrees centigrade over the course of 4 to 5 decades. These temperature signals would take, on average, 800 to 900 years to dampen out to the previously normal global annual temperature average. Researchers are not certain what caused these D/O events, although there are several intriguing hypotheses. Despite our lack of a full understanding about the cause of D/O events, one take-home message is the order of magnitude difference in the time the initial temperature excursion occurred and the time it took that temperature excursion to return to normal. That suggests that perhaps as much as a thousand year will be required for the present temperature excursion to un it's course.

Some estimates of the dwell time for CO2 in the atmosphere is up to 2,000 years, other estimates are somewhat longer. That means that what we have put into the atmosphere to date is going to be there for at least a couple of millennia. Couple that with the lag time between a particular atmospheric CO2 concentration and the mean annual temperature that is in equilibrium with that concentration, and temps will continue to rise for awhile even if we were able atmospheric CO2 concentrations at their present level, which obviously we are not going to do.

My conclusion is that the climate warming train has already left the station. From this point going forward mankind's challenge will be to learn to live in a warmer world instead of halting the changes that are already in the works.

Considering that Homo Sapiens have already lived though two glacial maximums and two interglacial periods, humankind will also survive whatever anthropogenic climate change serves up, although it is increasingly unlikely that our current culture/civilization will survive intact.

Planet earth has experienced climate extremes of "snowball Earth wherein 80 to 90% of the planet was covered in ice, and "hot house Earth" wherein there was no surface ice on the planet. It i very unlikely that anthropogenic climate change will approach either of those extremes.

Finally, as an earth scientist, I feel somewhat blessed to be able bear witness to both a mass extinction event (there have been many of these in Earth's history) as well as a marine transgression (and there have been even more of these). So, it's not all bad.



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