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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Pruitt is saying that CO2 doesn't cause global warming.
Maybe not so surprising that the administration of alternative facts is eschewing the scientific community in favor of their preferred belief strategies, on the order of "all the news organizations (that we deride as fake news sites) are saying it (except they're not) so it must be true".
It is what it is - this is what the humans voted for.
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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And Clinton had a 90% chance of winning.
We believe stuff, one way or another. It is what it is, it's just hard to say exactly what that is.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Interesting exchange ^^^
Sorry but that was a pathetic display of arrogance and ignorance by F*#ker Carlson AND
Bill Nye, who is well meaning, isn't qualified to be a spokesperson for climate science on live
TV. IMO Nye should stop doing these interviews. Not sure why he didn't say that CO2 traps heat
and that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has nearly doubled during the last 150 years
due to burning fossil fuels and that this rate of CO2 increase is unprecedented on geologic
time scales of tens of million of years. As soon as Nye started babbling about dinosaurs in
Colorado and growing wine grapes in England, the Climate Deniers were doing a victory
dance in the end zone ;-(
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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It went from 280ppm to 400ppm in 150 years-not a doubling. Resolution of ice cores and other proxies are insufficient to determine if this percentage of increase in 150 years is a unique event.
If you folks truly live in fear of rising CO2, and modest increases in temps, then you should embrace nuclear and Nat Gas.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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You haven't got it yet? Theirs isn't that too embrace.
The sky is falling, run!!! And it all their fault👉
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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I have no problems with those technologies as long as the longterm energy policy is to transition away from burning fossil fuels (including natural gas) and the nuke plants are well engineered and located away from seismically active coastlines.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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^^*yeah, let's build a bunch in Canada it's cold as sh#t up there. Reactors need big time cooling, right?
But assuredly we WILL drain all the crude out of the planet
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Mar 10, 2017 - 11:05am PT
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But assuredly we WILL drain all the crude out of the planet
Sadly, because there are enormous profits to be made, that is likely true, especially considering the clowns currently running the country. Hopefully we won't burn all the coal, otherwise, we will likely plunge the planet into a repeat of the PETM. Look up thread ^^^ for info on the PETM.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Mar 10, 2017 - 08:12pm PT
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Sadly, because there are enormous profits to be made, that is likely true, especially considering the clowns currently running the country. Hopefully we won't burn all the coal, otherwise, we will likely plunge the planet into a repeat of the PETM. Look up thread ^^^ for info on the PETM.
Ok tradster. But I'm tired of hearing it's our fault. That blame game suuuuucks! I think we, each individual US citizen does their best to minimize their output. But the wheels are in motion, and there's a lot of countries that are obliviously goin to ride the same train to catch up. As an example, I believe most of our mined coal goes to China, and elsewhere. So just because we cut back doesn't mean the third worlds want to, or will. And who could blame'em! They see what we got and want it too. Sure there is huge profits to be made. Oil, and coal when burned are unequalled in energy output. Nuthin will ever compare. When we do run out I'm sure that will be the first thing we'll steal and murder for from another planet. Lol. Seriously, do you know China is re-establishing the Silk Road? That is all contingent on coal sales. And that will be hardcore for 50yrs. I'm with ya, it can seem all sad but in retrospect Mother Earth has been doin fine for 4 billion yrs. and I'm sure has seen many heat flashes, repeatedly. She'll do just fine! On the other hand, if we want to throw down some guilt, let's go after the Aviation industry, and train industry, and shipping industry, and trucking industry. They are accountable for more then half of the total pollutants. We don't NEED them! If you flew once from Cali to NY, you are responsible for more green house gasing then I caused in a year. So take ur cake and eat it too;)
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Mar 10, 2017 - 09:28pm PT
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BLUEBLOCR: No question that fossil fuels are the life blood of the world economy and that the momentum to continue their use for electricity production and transportation globally is staggering. I'm skeptical that there will be any meaningful, global cooperative agreement to significantly reduce fossil fuel use. There is just too much money to be made. I know the oil industry because I worked as a petroleum geologist for one of the major US oil companies for 10 years.
IMO, what this country needs is a comprehensive energy policy that sets goals for transitioning to carbon free electricity production and transportation over the next several decades, similar to Denmark's Energy Strategy 2050 that I posted ^^^. Ya, I know the US is NOT Denmark, but I think there are major components of that plan that could be adapted to the US. The problem is that this country lacks any comprehensive energy policy at all, let alone a policy that will reduce carbon use over the next several decades. This is not just my opinion, even Rex Tillerson, former Exxon CEO and our current Sec of State, has complained that the US has no meaningful energy strategy. Contrary to most of the other members of Trump's cabinet, Tillerson accepts that fossil fuel use has lead to global warming. Sadly, w/Trump & his cronies in the White House, any opportunity for meaningful progress toward GHG reduction in the foreseeable future, is probably dead.
Anyway, I think we're doomed. Future generations, including my two sons, will suffer the consequences of our lack of action to reduce CO2 emissions. Sure, Mother Earth will survive, but it will be devoid of any permanent ice, the oceans will acidify, floods, droughts and famines will increase, and sea level rise will render coastal regions, where millions of poor, helpless people live, uninhabitable.
Have you seen the film Behemoth? If not, I highly recommend it. It's a fascinating documentary film about coal mining in Mongolia. Here's the trailer...
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Mar 10, 2017 - 10:04pm PT
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"tired of hearing it's our fault."
That's just an excuse.
The USA is indeed the single biggest impediment to a global strategy to reduce GHGs.
Whatever we do, we would then need to highly pressure others to follow.
Only if this full effort failed would we have a valid excuse for continuing our emissions.
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As far as flying vs driving,
they are very roughly similar in GHG effect per passenger mile.
So a round trip flight of 5000 miles is roughly similar to driving 5000 miles in a typical car.
A 35 mpg car with one occupant or a 17.5 mpg vehicle with 2 occupants emits 410g per passenger mile.
An airplane emits 108g per passenger km, which is 174g per passenger mile.
However due to these emissions being direct into the stratosphere, it is estimated that they cause 2-3 times as much greenhouse effect.
So call it 174 x 2.5 = 435g per passenger mile.
http://www.carbonindependent.org/sources_aviation.html
http://www.carbonindependent.org/sources_car.html
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rick sumner
Trad climber
reno, nevada/ wasilla alaska
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Mar 11, 2017 - 06:28pm PT
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The impedance of IR is logarithmic rather than linear, meaning the effect of the first 20 ppm above the industrial level of 280 ppm is greater than the rise from there. Additionally the density of the atmosphere and the gravity field of the planetary body has much more to do with the median temp of lower tropospheric temps than atmospheric content. Just look at Venus and Mars for confirmation of this. Both bodies have a 97% atmospheric Co2 content, but the atmosphere of Venus is orders of magnitude denser than Mars, or Earth for that matter. The gravity field of Venus is 3 times stronger. You might ascribe the temp difference due to solar isolation differences, but that is clearly not nearly enough of an effect to account for the 1000 degree difference.
As far as human co2 emissions; they amount to less than 4% versus 96% natural. The residence time of either type of emission is 5-7 years- meaning the hundreds or thousands of years for sink uptake claimed by some wack job climate scientists is BS.
In recent years the recognized ECS of a doubling of CO2 has been steadily declining as per numerous credible peer reviewed studies. You have nothing to fear from a 560 ppm (the much hyped doubling) CO2 content. Without negative feedbacks the consequent temp increase is probably less than 1.2c. Much less than the range of natural variation and even with the temp increase less than the global average temp of most of the holocene.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Mar 11, 2017 - 06:48pm PT
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Sumner's residence time denial argument is easily debunked. CO2 concentration has risen 40% since man started emitting vast amounts of CO2. Natural, I think knot.
The global temp has already risen .8C even with just a 40% increase in CO2 concentration. Since ECS equilibrium takes hundreds to thousands of years, the temp will continue to rise, even with holding CO2 concentration at present levels
The range of ECS estimates:
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Mar 13, 2017 - 12:01pm PT
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Saw a nice story today about a guy who walked the length of the Keystone Pipeline path, and he had an insight that strikes at the heart of the topic in this thread:
It’s not just education, though. It’s about their identity and economic situation. On the Great Plains I came across countless ghost towns and abandoned homes. The folks out there realize the sense of mortality when it comes to community. So any project that’s going to bring in a bit of money is not going to be questioned on the grounds of climate change or pollution. It’s going to be greeted with open arms if it can help their community last a bit longer.
These are folks who see themselves as hardy, self-sufficient, small government individualists. If you believe in climate change, you’re giving in to the idea of government coming in to fix things, collective action to impose greenhouse gas limits, and reining in the evils of the free market with stricter regulation. This conflicts with so much of that heartland identity.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/03/keystone-pipeline-trespassing-across-america-ken-ilgunas/
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Mar 27, 2017 - 08:52pm PT
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The global temp has already risen .8C even with just a 40% increase in CO2 concentration. Since ECS equilibrium takes hundreds to thousands of years, the temp will continue to rise, even with holding CO2 concentration at present levels
You can move on to your next calamity in this case.
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