18 murdered, dumped in portrero chico; climbers are fleeing

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Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 02:50pm PT
This ISNT about a "race" of peoples. Good mexican folks are just that, and as good as anywhere on earth. What this IS about is a population of third world skallywags that make al-kay-duh look like girlscouts in comparison.
Riley Wyna

Trad climber
A crack near you
Feb 1, 2013 - 02:51pm PT
You do realise that Mayans did not partake in ritual killing right?
At least not until the very end.

You guys are showing an incredible amount of ignorance - it's like not knowing the difference between Africa and Europe or Rome and Greece. And for people who have studied Mayans and are even married to Mayans it is obvious your comments are putting you in league with Sarah Palin.
Read a book or travel a bit...

That said - Mexico is essentially a failed State right now - sure you will probably get lucky, and you are safe in a little climbing area.
But along the border here you need to be very careful - it used to be we would go down and eat after work - but you rarely see people doing that anymore. My own family rarely goes down there( Spanish.) Everyone has a story about eating and restaurant and gunmen coming into the restaurant and robbing everyone. You would never wear nice jewelry, or a big ring, or dress up nice and go to dinner. People are poor and hungry and they don't give a f*#k - a tip off from your waiter to some local hoods that you have a 2000 dollar ring and are flashing money is worth more than he will make in a month.
If you don't think there is a difference you are fooling yourself - Just come visit me and we can drive across to Mexico - Army on every corner, 50 cals, etc to keep the shopping and boarder tourist areas safe.
The political leadership is a vast network of payoffs and corruption that has only gotten worse - it is a country of Oligarchs where the vast majority of money is in the hands of the richest few and many people live in abject poverty. Kind of what you see occurring in the States right now with rising income disparity.

To say it is probably safe for a climbing trip and a trip to Cancun misses the point - Because there are many other vast areas of lawlessness where good people who try to fix some very serious problems are killed everyday.
Like everything - it is a complex.
But nobody should downplay the changes that have occurred in Mexico or the dangers.

My El Salvadorian father-in-law who has spent most of his life in Mexico and Central America does not even want us to go down there ever. If you are Spanish you can sort of fit in - but blond hair stands out. I had to practically argue with him when we went to Belize and Guatemala a few years ago. It's the people who have lived there who consider it the most dangerous now.


http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/12/24/3617509/relatives-struggle-to-bring-children.html

Buses in Mexico have been targeted by drug cartels in recent years, and the U.S. State Department has long told Americans that carjacking and highway robbery are "serious problems" throughout much of the Texas-Mexico border region.

Read more here: http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/12/24/3617509/relatives-struggle-to-bring-children.html#storylink=cpy
Manny

Social climber
tempe
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:07pm PT
Ron, I must have misunderstood your initial statement:
"Ive mentioned that before Hankster! Im all for that. We go around the globe to free countries under the rule of the ruthless yet we put up with a neighboring country that floods us as well with problematic types as they attempt to escape what is nothing but a large cesspool of murder rape and pillage. And we DO NOTHING about that.."

It sounds as though Mexico/Mexicans is a "large cesspool" or was it something I don't understand about your statement?

I totally agree with you that the cartels are every bit as dangerous as Al-q and closer.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
"But nobody should downplay the changes that have occurred in Mexico or the dangers."

I agree, this is what irks me the most about this thread and the one on MP. I just wrote a post on MP saying the same thing.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:12pm PT
Mamy do the same Manny,, no worries.. I have good Mexican friends, and they are great folk- just like average Iranians who only want to be like the US.

But these good folks are now under attack by the worst of their cultures, and so are we here in the USA now , as nightly news channels record the dead and the shootings. The Cartels, the gangs, the corrupt govt and police all NEED to be delt with and done in no uncertain terms. The only way i see that happening is for the USA to decide to DO something about it. Its would be for the good of GOOF FOLKS on both sides of the border.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:19pm PT
Just to clarify, you think the US should go into Mexico and stop the cartels Ron?
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:20pm PT
ABSOLUTELY...

Yes, a full on Brigade after Brigade sweep. Poncho Via would approve.

edit: and match that here by rounding up EVERY KNOWN GANG MEMBER in the USA and either A) deporting them or B) deporting them to a Mexican jail or Vietnamese jail or any other country of their origin including the USA.

Why the hell we put up with hundreds of thousands of KNOWN gang members is beyond me...
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:23pm PT
Of course the Mexicans would welcome us with open arms like in Iraq, and everyone would live happily ever after like in every other country we have intervened in.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:27pm PT
The average Iranian (my buddy) hopes for the USA to take out their regime..Im willing to bet the good folks of mexico would welcome a squad of marines in their village to keep them safe,, yes i do...They are arming themselves with old single shot scatter guns in an effort to survive. If I were them, I would welcome a squad toting ARs and 50 cals..I would point out every Cartel member i knew to them as well.. And i would ask to go along, if they let borrow one of those assualt weapons..
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:29pm PT
Weather it's a good idea or not. The problem is many Mexicans would feel the "Imperialistic" USA is just trying to take over Mexico and the Mexican news media would make it look that way as well.

Edit: F*#k that Pancho Villa guy Ron, the real revolutionary was Emiliano Zapata.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:35pm PT
The average Mexican would not, welcome the US. I've lived there, I speak the language, I know the country well. Your Iranian friend is an N: of 1. I also firmly believe change has to come from the inside for it to be lasting, we have zero track record of foreign intervention actually ever working to enact a lasting change in the last 30 or so years, we have a long track record of destabilizing countries, we have a debt to take care of, and an obvious non-violent solution to the problem. So I disagree.
dirt claud

Social climber
san diego,ca
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:38pm PT
^^^+1
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
Yes and a good part of our debt goes to illegal aliens here right now. Then throw in the amount of $$$ that goes into LEO actions nightly with the same, incarceration of the same, welfare, free clinics, and the list goes on.

Compton, Richland, Sacto, LA, Oakland, Reno, Vegas you name it. The last three violent shootings in the previous week all involved exactly the same types around the reno tahoe area. We have lands that WE ARENT allowed to go on in the USA..And much more where they advise against it. We have farmers shot in their fields near the southern border. All bullsheet and WASNT what my forefathers , grandfathers Uncles and Brothers fought for.

Its not just a Mexico problem.. It affects us all, as tax payers.
Manny

Social climber
tempe
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:53pm PT
Two middle aged white males were slaughtered by another middle aged white male in Phoenix. Then he killed himself. Violence is universal, not just limited to Mexicans and gang bangers.

I'd like to see the facts showing that illegal aliens take any significant portion of the USA's debt. I think there are plenty of freeloaders on the govt dime, corporations for instance. Why do we pay Big Oil billions in subsidys? Oh, I know, they're all-american. Or maybe not.

The USA needs to retool itself and focus on domestic issues before we can school the world.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 1, 2013 - 03:57pm PT
viva la raza
QITNL

climber
Feb 1, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
Manny is absolutely correct. I'm also taking exception to Ron's racist comments regarding Mexico and Hispanics here and elsewhere on this forum.

I have zero-tolerance for this type of hate-speech. Ron, if you would like to continue that line of discussion, please take it to another forum.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 1, 2013 - 04:01pm PT
Ron, whether I agree or disagree with what you just wrote is irrelevant, the outcome of what you are suggesting is what matters.

Sending troops into Mexico would not make the situation better, it would make it worse, we would have a much worse situation on our hands. I guarantee you of that. Our track record with foreign intervention is one of destabilization, not stabilization. We simply don't know what we are doing when it comes to these things, and our hands are tied as a country by a binary two party way of thinking that prevents us from being able to effect change in another country even if we knew how to do it.
atchafalaya

Boulder climber
Feb 1, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
"Why the hell we put up with hundreds of thousands of KNOWN gang members is beyond me..."

The same reason we put up with ignorant racist f*#ks from moundhouse.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 1, 2013 - 04:04pm PT
I dont disagree with any of that Manny..

You can find facts and figures of the following:

Prison populations by ethnicity

Free clinic use by the same

Welfare usage by the same

Emnergency room treatements and non payments. ( i have a buddy who deals with those figures for CTH.)

and watch the nightly bay area news and then guesstimate the amount of $$$$ during the subsequent LEO actions, investigations and reports all done in ganglands. On an average night in E carson, youll find no less than three cruisers, one being a canine unit around the hotsprings and hgwy 50 intersections at ALL TIMES. The area now known as little TJ.. This only a few miles from the fishing spot on the river i like where i had to read Kill the whites, and F*ck white boyz scrawled on the rock with spray paint from a local hispanic gang.

The SK gang had a shoot out in my parking lot twenty feet from me inside- watching it through the window during a car chase. So i have some first hand knowledge if you will.




For those of you calling me racist,, you obviously cant read or


comprehend...




Ive NEVER painted kill anyone on any rock...



jghedge

climber
Feb 1, 2013 - 04:07pm PT
"..This only a few miles from the fishing spot on the river i like where i had to read Kill the whites, and F*ck white boyz..."

You're a pathetic, lying as#@&%e.

Why such overt, nauseatingly racist drivel doesn't get you banned from the site is a disgrace to the site itself.

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