18 murdered, dumped in portrero chico; climbers are fleeing


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Trad climber
San Diego, CA
Feb 4, 2013 - 03:02pm PT
You ex - military Hank?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Feb 4, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
The manufacturing went to Mexico for a while. Remember the maquiadoras ? Capital moved on.

Trad climber
'cross the great divide
Feb 4, 2013 - 03:09pm PT
It needs to redo the way it allows business to function, make it more of a free market, capitalistic, less open to local corruption and wham! They have the skills, the desires and the resources to compete. Do that and I bet half the problems over there will disappear.

Yes, maybe, but reducing corruption is one of the primary cruxes for all developing countries trying to increase prosperity amongst its citizens. It is much more difficult and complex than simply changing laws or policy. Once corruption has gained traction in a society, people lose faith and become jaded towards its political and economic system. The people engaging in corruption have a strong vested interest in the status quo, and are generally resistant to positive change.

If it were as simple as changing the way government allows business to function, then you can be sure that half of the problems (or more) for the entire Third World would disappear.

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 4, 2013 - 03:26pm PT
The manufacturing went to Mexico for a while. Remember the maquiadoras ? Capital moved on.

It needs to be gov't subsidized. Yes, I said it.....

And Yeah, I think Hank is former mil.

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 4, 2013 - 03:47pm PT
Ex-scout member : I would never allow my children to join that backwards bumfuct organization.


I hear ya, the Boy Scouts of America is nothing but a bad influence on boys.

They should be banned for their homophobic ideas. Gays are a better role model for humanity than those BSA as#@&%es!

Social climber
Feb 4, 2013 - 05:25pm PT
I was watching some TV documentary yesterday about the cartels, and they were interviewing a "hitman" for the cartel in Sinaloa. He said he'd killed 15 people so far. They asked him how much, and he said $200 each (only in pesos). The interviewer mentioned that's not much and he replied "here, it is plenty". So if you have kids who are willing to become hit men for only $200 I don't think there is ANYTHING that will improve the situation.

Trad climber
Out and about
Feb 4, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
I don't think there is ANYTHING that will improve the situation.

Eliminating demand would immediately improve the situation.

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 4, 2013 - 05:44pm PT
Eliminating demand would immediately improve the situation.

John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Feb 4, 2013 - 06:13pm PT
In antiquity, IIRC, tossing bodies in the well, was a way to punish the larger public of the area. No one will ever drink from a well - from which dead have been pulled out - again. In antiquity, that could doom a town.

Can't find much on the interwebs to support it, but google offers:


Archaeologists from Israel say they have have stumbled onto a Neolithic murder mystery after two bodies were found dumped in a well dating back 8,500 years.

Researchers from the Israel Antiquities Authority unearthed the ancient well in the Jezreel Valley, south-west of Nazareth, after it was discovered by road maintenance workers.

But they have no idea how the skeletal remains of a 19-year-old girl and an older man came to be dumped deep down the 26ft well, and suggest that it may be a case of murder

'What is clear is that after these unknown individuals fell into the well it was no longer used,' said Yotam Tepper, the archaeologist in charge of the dig.


Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 4, 2013 - 06:28pm PT


Feb 4, 2013 - 07:04pm PT
Musicians are usually just a bunch of womanizers and that's about it. Really, extremely sad. :(

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 4, 2013 - 08:01pm PT
Video of the band playing

Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:10am PT
canyoncat - that's how it works, kids are used as hitmen in Colombia too. They start out as neglected or homeless children, which is a widespread social problem. It's partly a result of the war, which created millions of displaced people and broke up families. The participants in the fighting were generally men, and their numbers got reduced, leaving orphans. Another thing is that rural Colombians don't formally marry as a rule, and the father sometimes just walks off. If there is an extended family, that's one thing, but many millions of them are displaced and that's not an option. There's also just a lot of bad parents. For whatever reason, there's a lot of kids down there living on the streets or ignored at home and on the streets all the time anyway. The paramilitaries and guerrillas use them as lookouts and pay them, giving 8 or 10 year old homeless kids the best opportunity they've ever had. Eventually they graduate to a certain age and are given a gun, and a sense of power few 12 year olds would have. Since they come from poor displaced communities, where no one paints their house because its too expensive, its an attractive option, and this is very prevalent and the way the armed groups have recruited for years. (Freddy Rendon Herrera was just convicted of this, recruitment of minors, for about 150 teenagers under his command)

About 3 years ago, there was a guy in a wheelchair who used to hang out in front of a particular store a lot, was either a lookout, or suspected of being one, since a young boy of about 10 years ran up and just shot and killed him in broad daylight. This was about 2 blocks from my office in Apartado. And from my work I know that a large % of the victims of the conflict have been teenagers. The farc like to recruit adolescents so that they can indoctrinate them, which is slightly different. In any event, kids have no fear and will do what they're told, and can be taught to accept it as normal. When they get older they have seen so much and been desensitized.

One last story: an apartment I used to rent was above a fried chicken place like KFC. These guys were up at 5:30 AM to fry all the chicken for the day, and the smell made me feel sick to my stomach, that's how I woke up every day until I moved out. A year later there it is on the news, the same fried chicken restaurant, I am subscribing to a youtube channel of a news station from there. It turns out that one of my neighbors, on the same floor but I didn't recognize him or know him, had decapitated his wife in their kitchen, with a kitchen knife. I can post the link to the news story if desired. I attribute this kind of psycho behavior to things seen or learned at a young age, although I don't know anything about the guy. I guess this could happen anywhere, but the homicide rate there is extremely high. (Ron mentioned MS 13 before, they're from El Salvador and I have the same theory about them.)

A couple of awesome movies from Colombia about Medellin, the capital of our department. The first is called Vendedora de Rosas, its about street children and there is a youtube version with english subtitles. The second is called La Sierra: Muerte en Medellin, that's about the AUC paramilitaries, who turn out to be about 16 years old, and is a really scary documentary. It starts with an older guy who says, "We're in the hands of armed teenagers. That's the problem." A third movie would be "La Gorra' which is just about gang violence. All these movies are in a similar style, that reminds me of Spike Lee.

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 5, 2013 - 05:11pm PT

Rock and Ice responds, and makes some good points too.

Feb 5, 2013 - 09:25pm PT
Perhaps Acapulco is better?


Oh, perhaps not.
Jon Beck

Trad climber
Feb 5, 2013 - 11:03pm PT
Part of the corruption problem in Mexico stems from is the centralization of power in Mexico City. More autonomy to the individual states might have reduced the opportunity for corruption to take hold on such a large scale.

That Acapulco story is going to really finish the tourist business off in Mexico.

Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
Feb 6, 2013 - 02:33am PT
think I'll pass on Mexico with my two weeks of vacation this year. I hear that Peru is a more climber-hospitable locale.
Erik Vance

Trad climber
Berkeley, CA
Feb 11, 2013 - 02:02pm PT
I think about 90% of the posts on this thread have no idea what they are talking about and have only heard of Mexico through episodes of Breaking Bad. Really, you guys are worse than Fox News. Which is saying something. Mexico is a climber's paradise, full of amazing people and culture and rock. The crisis in the north deserves our empathy and support, not our ignorant scorn.

Social climber
Feb 11, 2013 - 02:10pm PT
Mexico's northern border is under attack. Other states are also battlegrounds though. I posted previously and after reading "El Narco" by Ioan Grillo, I realized it is a complex problem for the whole of the country. There are many sites that will inform and frighten you if you wish to know.

I agree that Mexico is a beautiful and mostly tranquil country. I climb there often and will return. But to have a safe trip you should definitely do some research on the areas you will climb. Potrero is unfortunately in the very heart of the flames.

Latest news shows Kombo Kolombia was targeted because of the war between the Zetas and Gulf Cartel. From Borderland Beat: "In the first instances, the hypothesis was that Kombo Kolombia had been "finished off" by leaders of the Gulf Cartel (CDG) because of its close relationship with rival gangs.

But the most recent investigations are now pointing in a different direction. Versions collected by the authority reported that Los Zetas have reprimanded musicians for playing in bars and clubs operated by the CDG in the metropolitan area. It is what they saw as a betrayal and who paid with their life. Jose Isidro Cruz Villarreal, "El Pichilo" is thought to have been in charge of recruiting Kombo Kolombia for the performance in the municipality of Hidalgo, and would been the leader who led the convoy of gunmen that kidnapped the band."

Trad climber
Feb 11, 2013 - 02:45pm PT
Yes Dear Americans,

If you'd like to solve many of these problems in Mexico, please stop buying the drugs that flow through Mexico. Quite right deschamps.

Then the Mexican people can concentrate on tourism, manufacturing, and other more socially acceptable forms of generating wealth.

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