help climbers visciously attacked in Peru

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Messages 461 - 480 of total 974 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:15pm PT
Real climbers are checking out the FA of El Pilar del Sol Naciente.
Dick Erb

climber
June Lake, CA
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:16pm PT
Here is a magazine article about their rig and some notes from the first four thousand miles of their journey.

http://www.truckcampermagazine.com/off-road-expeditions/meg-and-jed-wolfrom-adventure-americas
Fish Finder

Social climber
THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:20pm PT
maybe she should of listened or knott to her own advice


From the link above ( a feature article before the incident)

TCM: What would you say to someone who was fascinated by your trip through Central and South America and considering such a trip?

Meg: Donít be scared. The media in the United States fills us with these negative thoughts and ideas about the countries south of the border. Sure, they have their bad areas and thugs, but so does the United States. I have been more scared riding a subway in Los Angeles than I have ever been traveling in a foreign country.

Donít stay somewhere you donít feel safe, donít flash valuables or money around, and donít do drugs as that means you having interactions with people who sell drugs, Just use your common sense in general and you will be fine. It is my belief and experience that people are primarily good.
survival

Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:28pm PT
people love him and take whatever vile things he writes as law, but a new guy posts up a story copied from multiple sources on the web and somehow my motivations are under suspicion.

You're making a lot of assumptions there man.

Keep the nano puff. I couldn't wear something called a nano puff.

What in the heck did you say to get an individual post pulled? Must've been rich for a new guy. If Jeremy's posts are vile and they don't get pulled, yet one of your first ever posts gets pulled, what does that make it?

How about a thread on your climbing exploits before you jump right into the nasty stuff?
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:30pm PT
It would make you sound like a classless stingy controlling f*#k, though.


Well just think about this for a second. All I request is a clear indication of what the money will be used for. I'm not sure that that really fits the definition of control freak but even if it is thats my perrogative.

On the other hand, someone at the other end is most certainly controlling the level of information and it seems to be resulting in an absence of information. The simple solution is to provide information.

In that absence, one has to wonder why? Its not paranoia or even a lack of empathy. I and I assume most would just like to see our donations go to a cause that we think is right. this isn't rocket science. Whenever money exchanges hands there needs to be clear accountability and transparency.

I think this is really fascinating. This is the only real issue yet no one wants to address it.

If this was to be cleared up, all else is moot. These guys got f*#ked up and they need help .... but to do what? fly home? score hookers and blow? Buy a new truck?

no one knows but hey I guess thats just what makes our economy roll huh?


lets put it this way..... ever wonder where all your money went in Iraq? That was a good cause.... wasn't it?
couchmaster

climber
pdx
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:31pm PT
PC said:
"Last i heard, everyone on Supertopo will get a brand-new lime-green nano puff and a kitten."
OMG you're cracking me up!

BTW, is the line to trade the lime-green nano puff and a kitten for hookers blow very long yet, cause I think I'm heading right over there before the stampede hits.
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:37pm PT
To people asking if they are climbers, go to their blog, the answer is there and obvious.

Isn't it that ugly American trait of entitlement as well in demanding to know about how other people are spending money that legally came to them?

Edit: Who on here gave them money out of curiosity? Did you Bruce?
-Pat
Crimpergirl

Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:42pm PT
Vegasclimber asks:

Was this a solicitation for monetary help? Because I never saw a post with any kind of contact information, regardless of the thread title.

I think many viewed the first post which states:


a solicitation for money since that link is a place one can contribute money. BTW, that link no longer appears to work.
patrick compton

Trad climber
van
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 7, 2013 - 12:43pm PT

What in the heck did you say to get an individual post pulled? Must've been rich for a new guy. If Jeremy's posts are vile and they don't get pulled, yet one of your first ever posts gets pulled, what does that make it?

How about a thread on your climbing exploits before you jump right into the nasty stuff?

can't say, or I'll gets banzed again.
fair enough
fair enough
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:46pm PT
On the positive side, if you decide to dazzle us we're impressed by the very least of accomplishments, Patrick C. I hope you stick around after telling us of your RP of The Trough, I like your style.
PopLockeAndDropIt

Gym climber
Dirty South
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:49pm PT
Credit: PopLockeAndDropIt
crunch

Social climber
CO
Jan 7, 2013 - 12:51pm PT
It's pretty awful to watch virtually defenseless people get stoned by a blood-thirsty mob. I mean, of course, by all the jerk keyboard warriors and forum trolls. You should all be deeply ashamed of yourselves; how ironic that what you're doing is exactly the same mob behavior. I've personally been involved in an incident much like this one and know exactly what it feels like to narrowly escape with your life and then proceed to get bombarded by a bunch of asshats who try to construe every bit of information they can get their greasy hands on to discredit you and call you a liar, douchebag, or moron. It's just awful in every sense of the word. Awful. Some hapless people were involved in an episode in which some sort of misunderstanding or shake-down for cash led to them getting the crap beat out of them. So the F what? Why does it matter to you? Maybe just try a gesture of a decent human being and wish them well on their way. The endless speculation is disgusting. You might end up sitting around a fire with them one day or crashing at their house or maybe they'll be the next ones down the descent and help you with a stuck rope; they are probably some of the kindest and most well-meaning folks around. Then you'll be the one to feel like a complete knob and hopefully it will cause you to correct your life for the better in the future. Except that most of the negativity probably comes from those who struggle to climb into an office chair and bore the internet with their drivel and the content of their sad and unfulfilled brains.

Derrell, that's an excellent question.

And yes, sorry to hear of your own, unfortunate, experiences. Yes, sometimes insult is added to injury. And yes, I'm sure these three individuals are cool, nice people.

So, an answer to your question?

Supertopo is a specialized, climbers' forum. Many of us have been to challenging parts of countries of Third-World countries. Disclosure; only 3rd-World countries I've been to: Mexico a couple times [not the tourist areas] and Morocco (while nearby Libya was in a civil war). My wife's been hiking and climbing in remote parts of Peru. I have personal friends who've been all over Africa, Asia, all over South America on hiking, exploring, climbing trips. Travel to places like these is not easy but really opens the mind to different ways of thinking about things. These friends are better people for their travels.

In real life, an entire village (including women, children) would need a strong motivation to collectively chase down, attack, question, beat and temporarily imprison three innocent Americans. What made these villagers act this way? Frustratingly, the account in the original story does not give much clue (an eloquent post by pat, a few pages up-thread, outlines a very plausible scenario). The seemingly unprovoked nature of this organized assault is what gives the story its impact.

So, my interest is personal. How do I behave, next time I'm in Peru, or Mali, or Pakistan, so as not to provoke such an incident?

In wider terms, what can we learn from the horrific experience these three have been through? If just one similar attack is prevented by what we can learn, then isn't that worthwhile?

If the three persons in question won't analyze what went wrong, then we have to do it for them, using the collective wisdom (don't underestimate this wisdom, hiding under the wisecracks) of Supertopo posters.
Big Mike

Trad climber
BC
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:03pm PT
Pat c. I know who you are...

Interesting quote from the truck article

Meg: We have been traveling for a little over five months at this point and we just made it to South America. We would like to travel for at least eight or nine more months. It all depends on how long we can make our money last. We have thought about stopping to work somewhere.

TCM: Thatís the second time you mentioned money shaping the trip. Relatively speaking, you are young. How are you paying for this trip?

Meg: We saved money for about two years for this trip. We are just average people with average jobs. Jed is a carpenter and I am in marketing. We donít have trust funds.

We live fairly cheap in the first place, so saving came pretty easily with steady jobs. We went out to eat less and didnít take any other big vacations during this time. We had cheap rent. We learned that if you cut out the little unnecessary spending like cable and eating out, it is really easy to save.

Once you start seeing money in the bank it gets addictive. You just want to put more in. While saving, I never felt like we went without. Our biggest sacrifice was moving back in with roommates to cut living costs.
Brian in SLC

Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:04pm PT
^^^
Well said.

Had to be something that fired up a whole town of folks...
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:05pm PT
http://centropobladochaca.blogspot.mx/

If this was the village in question - 450 people population. 30 people is a mob. The village is the one Pallca on the list.
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:25pm PT
5 gallon gas can and 5 gallons of gas = $120

Is it really that expensive????


Anyhoo... I don't travel in third world countries without a native guide. They know what to avoid, who to avoid, and who to pay off. I traveled in Morocco. It's dangerous x10 because I was not only an infidel, but also a woman. Because of my guide, I didn't have problems. I swear without him all hell would have broken loose.

AFS
rockermike

Trad climber
Berkeley
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:45pm PT
Very cool camper. I want one.
canyoncat

Social climber
SoCal
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:53pm PT
All I have to say is that I'm feeling like a real luddite with my 2012 $450 laptop from Best Buy.

Admittedly it does everything I need a laptop to do, word processing, excel, net surfing, email, etc., but it must be missing some major kick ass features for the other $4,500.00, no?

Hell, I didn't even know anyone made a $5K laptop besides the nuclear hardened Mil-Spec Seal team specials???
Anastasia

climber
InLOVEwithAris.
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:54pm PT
Sometimes you got to suck it up, go home and call it a day. I was in a bad car accident. No one paid my ticket home, my medical bills, etc. It sucked but that's part of life. I still have a shoulder that doesn't work right and a few traumatic memories of the person that died and hard memories of a person that was badly injured but hey... I'm alive and that really is good enough. I chose to get in that car, I chose that risk and the life afterwards is all mine. No one needs to pay for it, for the damages of my stuff. (I cracked the motherboard to my computer, my prescription glasses, a camera, etc.) Life happens.

AFS
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 7, 2013 - 01:57pm PT
Crossing the dusty border from Kenya into Tanzania over a decade ago in a DHL package/shuttle van we were stopped and borded by three "soldiers" with ratty looking clothes and even more ratty looking AK's. One didn't even have a magazine in it.

They were smiling though and were checking "papers" and wanted money for processing. The amount was not discussed. I gave them the equiv. of $20.00 US, a good sum of money.

One much older woman(a white kenyan I believe) sitting towards the front refused to pay them anything and started to bitch and moan loudly. The soldier at the front of the van closed the door and racked the bolt on his AK. Their fingers were ALWAYS on the triggers. He was not smiling anymore.

Looking around the van there was nothing but more dishelved armed guys in various old army fatigues. We could have all disappeared in an instant.

A German couple sitting right behind the bitching woman jumped up to pay for her. She then refused and paid herself.

The three men smiled again and left.

There are stupid, desperate, and violent people everywhere on Earth, in every country.

Who knows what really happened. We probably never will. The Peru story reeks of bullshite but some parts might be true.

I just can't figure out who would fall for it and actually give $$$... That's amazing. Aside from help with plane tickets back home/passports/etc... who would ever actually ask strangers to replace their crap?
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