help climbers visciously attacked in Peru

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Messages 441 - 460 of total 1105 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
t*r

Mountain climber
where the wild things are
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:34pm PT
i understand the value of having photographic proof that something has happened, and can understand why some people might be thinking, "this is off. do you have any photos?"

i just don't need to see it and i think that over time we'll get more information from different sources. i'm going to be patient and wait to hear more about this from different angles. at least if the media does get involved, we might have more fact checking although we all know the mainstream media routinely makes mistakes in reporting information to the public.

i'm not really supportive of the idea that these folks should publish on their blog photos of their injuries.

perhaps i'm mistaken, but i don't see how simply having photos of injuries would prove an exact version of any story about how those would were inflicted. all it would prove is that injuries exist, whether those injuries were acquired in a car accident or were inflicted in an attack by incensed villagers.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:36pm PT
t*r, you don't get whipping slashes from a car accident. They claimed they were whipped. Their injuries will help tell the story of what really happened.
t*r

Mountain climber
where the wild things are
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:38pm PT
i get it, i just don't think the rest of us need to see it. ugh
WBraun

climber
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:39pm PT
We need to see everything.

Now go hide .....
fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:40pm PT
I just don't see why any strangers would give them a dime to replace anything... Are people really that stupid? Wait... scratch that....

Very clever though I must admit...
The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:45pm PT
The fact that a new laptop is the first thing they bought and their most essential need is what speaks volumes to me. They could have had family buy them a new one here in the states for thousands less and ship it to them in Cuzco. But that would have taken time. They obviously wanted to get their story out ASAP.

They could have gone to an Internet cafe and posted their story online for less than $10.
t*r

Mountain climber
where the wild things are
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:46pm PT
We need to see everything.

no we don't... this is the problem with social media. we see more than we want to see and the mainstream public has a rather salacious curiosity... although in this case it's a little more complicated, since the integrity of the victims has been questioned and as some have stated, this could have huge repercussions for peru's tourism industry. i would argue that's even better reason not to release graphic photos to the public, because those photos could wreak even more havoc.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:47pm PT
stzzo, they said they bought a new laptop. They weren't sitting in an internet cafe posting on an hourly rate basis.
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:48pm PT
While reading this thread from beginning to the end my feeling toward the victims has changed from big sympathy to questioning the validity of the story they posted.
Some asked on this thread that "[w]e need to hear story from another side (villagers)". This other side's story we can read indirectly in Jennifer Wolfrom report when she says that they were forced to sign the papers of accident report basically under gun point with the following statement explaining the car damage and their injuries :
Their accident report, written in Spanish, essentially said that we had been drinking and crashed our car, which is how the car got destroyed and how we got our injuries. However, the extent of our injuries and the condition of the car far surpasses anything that could happen by driving into a grassy ditch

If at some point we finally get the story from the dwellers of Pallcca we can except that it would be similar to this accident report.
So where is the truth ? Does it lie somewhere in the middle?

In my mind, there are many things which affect the truthfulness of Jennifer story . For instance this part:
There were at least 30 people chasing us and throwing rocks at us at one point. We were running for our lives for between 30 minutes to an hour through the village hills and rivers. We were each struck multiple times by rocks in the head and all over our bodies. We eventually were surrounded by villagers who continued to beat us until they decided to bring us back to the Presidente of the village.

Try to imagine this happening in complete dark. If the mob of 30 locals were chasing the trio with rocks within striking distance - how could this chase be so long (30 min?) What is the reason to strike rocks in the dark if you chasing someone?

If an angry mob of 30 people really beat them they would be dead or severely injured

The other thing which surprises me is that in the pursuit to collect more money they did not post/submit their photos showing the injuries they got from the beatings, stoning and whipping. Why? Such a photo could answer some questions about the incident - whether in their favor or disproving the story.

Reading her story more and more I trust it less and less. For instance, the reason for driving inside of the village and not back to main road is not explained
The number of beer bottles they had two between tree - not worth to mention unless it was something much more they had been drinking ...

And one more thing: If this terrible life and death experience would happen to me and my wife and my sister - it would be so traumatic that at first possible chance we all run back home, next day.
So if they remained there, collecting money, posting on blogs - it implies for me that their traumatic experience was not so dramatic as they try to make it to be.

And back to original post on this tread.
Patrick Compton registered on ST one day before posting some nonsense on Boobs thread and then 24 hours later dropped a link to donations
https://www.crowdtilt.com/campaigns/peru-fund-help-jenny-meghan-and-jed
Patrick Compton has never chimed up again.
aspendougy

Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
It easy enough to weigh in and give one's 2 cents worth. A more difficult, time-consuming and valuable approach would be to interview a number of the villagers in the attacking group, and get their side of the story.
t*r

Mountain climber
where the wild things are
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:50pm PT
and i would argue that that's even better reason not to release graphic photos to the public, because those photos could wreak even more havoc.

BUT it might reassure those who have been donating to this cause... so i can imagine why some might want to see but i just think that overall releasing such photos might do more harm than good. i don't know, i don't think this is a black and white issue.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
t*r, if there were any gruesome photos of this and the injuries they sustained, it would be all over the internet by now. Every major media source is checking on this story. The UK Daily Mail alone has been looking into pictures to go along with this incident. Hospitals would have the photos and those that work there would easily sell them to a Western media outlet for great money.

They are reporting on an international incident and want proof of what went down. Which is why this story has not gained legs in the world media. Initial reports from what they claimed yes, follow up with proof of it, no.
Fluoride

Trad climber
West Los Angeles, CA
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:54pm PT
"And one more thing: If this terrible life and death experience would happen to me and my wife and my sister - it would be so traumatic that at first possible chance we all run back home, next day.
So if they remained there, collecting money, posting on blogs - it implies for me that their traumatic experience was not so dramatic as they try to make it to be."

Bingo Alexey! I said the same thing just upthread.
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Reno, Nuh VAAAA duh
Jan 6, 2013 - 08:57pm PT
So, these ugly Americans, at worst, defraud some money fat idiots and enrage a bunch of myopic online wankers while continuing to live the dream. Respect.
t*r

Mountain climber
where the wild things are
Jan 6, 2013 - 09:05pm PT
They are reporting on an international incident and want proof of what went down. Which is why this story has not gained legs in the world media. Initial reports from what they claimed yes, follow up with proof of it, no.

interesting. thanks for sharing your perspective.



t*r

Mountain climber
where the wild things are
Jan 6, 2013 - 09:08pm PT
if we all find out this is a hoax:

Hardman Knott

Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
Jan 6, 2013 - 09:12pm PT
4 days later and STILL knott all over the international media.

I think it's official.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Jan 6, 2013 - 09:12pm PT
Has anyone here an opinion on the massive die-off of dolphins and penguins in Peru? Could there be a tie-in?

http://www.sott.net/article/245836-Dolphin-Deaths-in-Peru-The-Mystery-Deepens

BTW Crimpie. I would agree that donations would be appropriate for medical needs and not for gadgets. For those they should contact their homeowners insurance company.







The user formerly known as stzzo

climber
Sneaking up behind you
Jan 6, 2013 - 09:19pm PT
stzzo, they said they bought a new laptop. They weren't sitting in an internet cafe posting on an hourly rate basis.

Sorry for the confusion. Yes, I know this.

My point was that a new laptop at Cuzco prices was likely not necessary to get the story out. To get the story out, an Internet cafe would likely have sufficed.
Bruce Kay

Gym climber
BC
Jan 6, 2013 - 09:20pm PT
The single most obvious feature of this story is that nothing has been verified. At least as told here on this thread. I havn't bothered exploring further elsewhere. Even the event itself seems at least a little doubtful in spots. Certainly the soliciting of funds and for what purpose they are intended has not been explained at all or verified as legitimate.

I wouldn't be surprised to find out eventually that it is all legitimate but at this point it would be equally likely to find out that it is not or at least misrepresented in purpose. I honestly don't see the point of even paying attention until the proponents begin to explain themselves a bit better.

Its worth noting that others have gone down this sort of road, most likely with perfectly good and honorable intentions but have totally dropped the ball mostly with other peoples money.

Greg Mortenson comes to mind. Lance Armstrong too.

I would never put a cent into anything like this without a high degree of verification, transparency and accountability.
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