Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Grahm Doe
Sport climber
Oakhurst, CA
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 01:53am PT
|
Wow, this is getting good. I have to laugh a little at this.
Anyone who knows Medusa knows what his slander is worth.
Well, I am off to put up some more classics tomorrow. Can't wait to read what happens while I am gone!
|
|
nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 03:00am PT
|
All these people arguing and nobody has a real name.
lame...
But I'm with MisterE....!!!!1111666 I just wanted to post to this awesome thread.
Lamers....
Edit: sac, good question. The hard free lines on El Cap wouldn't exist if they were not chipped.... I mean nailed..
|
|
ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
the greasewood ghetto
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 04:02am PT
|
" Well, I am off to put up some more classics . . . "
(having already copped to sculpting holds ...) IE they are gunna be "classics" cuz rapping bass-akwards into it firstly , then beating the shlt into submission . A foregone conclusion .
|
|
Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 04:38am PT
|
When you do new routes, in ANY style, some people are going to get on your ass over it.......people like to whine. Grahm seems like a motivated, shoot from the hip, modern sort of guy....and I bet he aint' the first to do " a dirty deed done dirt cheap.".......While I personally don't agree with the rock alteration, I appreciate his candid honestly, and it's unfortunate that , instead of applauding his many excellent efforts, countless hours spent developing awesome new routes, and all his own $ spent on bolts, pins, and anchors........the climbing community here wants to kick him around the block for his few trangressions........while, probably 99 percent of his new routes are done with no monkey business, chipping, or shinanigans.........too bad.....he even does alot of them on the lead ( or at least that is what I have read from him ). I don't believe I know this lad personally....(although I have met many climbers and forget the name with the face...)......I personally want to say " Bad boy" for your chipping, and "Thank you so very much.....I respect and appreciate all your efforts , money spent and hard work done for the climbing community." As a new route developer myself.....I too have been called all sorts of nasty names by people who disagree with MY style of climbing.......My trangressions are not chipping or glueing.........but other "evils" that can make a man's blood boil just thinking about it......many, many people would like to see me personally quartered , casterated, and boiled in oil.....JUST for placing those damn metal bolts in God's nature......It's really easy to piss SOMEONE off ......(Some people think marajuana users belong in jail and girls in bikinis are discusting.....some people think it's OK to stick a hamster up one' arse too.......lots of strange people on our planet.....)....Bottom line;.....chipping and glueing as a policy is lame and "bad"......Grahm Doe the man and the majority of his efforts and climbs.....probably fairly awesome.........as Donini says;.....it's not the man.....(or his many non-controversal routes)......it's the rock alteration that is lame-o........try to chew on ALL the facts before spitting out a half baked condemnation of Grahm Doe........
|
|
S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 04:39am PT
|
Yawn...
Edit: Gordo you rock
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 04:47am PT
|
ok, what if you are half way up, you pull on a flake, the flake is fractured, it will hold you, but would be much safer if it were discarded and the new solid edge used to full dyno a rattlesake?
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 01:02pm PT
|
what if you knew from special powers that a 11.3 magnitude earthquake along the san andreas fault was going to knock over every national monument we have in a matter of months?
hwy 35 runs along 5 or 6 climbing areas, it also runs directly over the biggest fault on the west coast.
maybe i should tie in?
no, the sandstone will come apart like a house of cards, deep caverns, weakening the rock for years, it's all over,
were gonna die!
ok, which freak organization said that we were all gonna die in an erathquake, and when that didn't happen, it was the comet khoutec coming next to wipe us all out?
first correct answer gets a free hit if window payne.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 02:04pm PT
|
Why is there a double standard with trad free and trad aid?
Why do the biggest trad whiners sound so much like religious zealots?
Sheesh!
|
|
Tork
climber
Yosemite
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 02:05pm PT
|
The chipping out at Shuteye sucks!!! It sucks, it sucks ,it sucks,... But, Grahm has said he is not chipping anymore. If you can prove otherwise, then do so. Where is he chipping? If Grahm is true to his word, then all this name calling and finger pointing is only going to push him back to the DARK SIDE.
Grahm is a pretty cool guy and super motivated. I wish he would consider other's feelings before he acts sometimes though.
Jeff
|
|
dirhk
Trad climber
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 03:29pm PT
|
I'm in agreement with Piton Ron. Wow. Why are chippers the ultimate evil while bolt/rivit ladders are standard?
New el cap aid route: 100 holes.
New el cap free route, 3 holes and 70 glued on holds.
Which is worse and why?
|
|
Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 03:44pm PT
|
why do i have to wait for big white butt cracks to hook their way up the route?
|
|
corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 04:02pm PT
|
No matter how we climb, the rock is changed by our passage.
I'll build new mountains if somehow we crumble the ones we got now.
We are gods!
Gotta get a beer. Have some fun!
|
|
old toad
Trad climber
yosemite, Ca.
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 04:15pm PT
|
Bacher says it all! Don't come to Yosemite to chip or "enhance" as I will personally chop the route.
Ron Skelton
|
|
Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 06:27pm PT
|
Kinda sad! Driving 5 hours to do some rock-raping. Truly a sorry state of affairs.
Respect the rock! It is a finite resource after all! Chipping holds to make the route go is so damn wrong. There is NO EXCUSE for it ever! Who cares if you can climb 5.13, if you are hacking the rock to do so.
Poor style
Poor ethics
Poor excuses
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 08:34pm PT
|
Man, I have such strong feelings on this subject, really ready to get a good rant on. But the fact is John Bachar and Jim Donini have said it all.
Todd, respectfully I disagree with you. I think it is a mistake to look at chipping / enhancing holds as a point of style.
|
|
Studly
Trad climber
WA
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 09:57pm PT
|
I read this thread in its entirety and have to say that I don't agree with Donini's comment on gluing, that it is never justified. I myself have never glued any holds becasue I don't really put up sport routes. But in the woods near where I live there is a semi manky little known crag. We don't get much good rock around near here, and some first ascenders had to glue a few handholds on some of the best routes to save the holds falling off that enabled these routes to begin with. I think gluing to save holds being pulled on low traffic little known obscure crags it justified and the people that say Not, are the ones that have good climbing at their fingertips, and not hours away like around here.
It really depends on the crag and its location and type of rock. Thats my point. No disrespect to Jim.
|
|
F10
Trad climber
e350
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 10:25pm PT
|
What is this thing with hampsters?
Are they like a ropegun or something?
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
May 23, 2009 - 11:11pm PT
|
There's been glue here, chiseling, tons of it on El Cap.
You'll all live ......
|
|
Chinchen
climber
Living on the road
|
|
|
May 24, 2009 - 01:51pm PT
|
Man, us climbers sure are a bunch of self-righteous pricks....
We drive to the crags on roads blasted from the sides of mountains with cars powered by fuels dug from miles beneath the earth. We climb on nylon gear that was made in factories that create mass amounts of pollution just to cook the ingredients. We clip bolts with carabiners made from minerals that were harvested from huge open pit mines.....
I could go on.
Bottom line is that we climb for the love of it. Every one of us in our own way. Chipping, bolting, rapping....
WHO CARES.
Im going bouldering now.
Jason
|
|
eyeisshut
climber
cA
|
|
|
May 24, 2009 - 05:38pm PT
|
"Reporter"
Chipping routes on clean granite!
shut eye ridge!
Chipping and drilling pockets!acton area
Punch bowl.
Big bear areas. out of control!
should be shot.
Those guys cant climb very well so they gotta chop it down to there level! Truly a bunch of chicken s&^losers!
ban them from climbing! Pull up a chair This is just the begining to the opening to the gates of hell for the chipping crews! Bolts will be pulled!
New report Cuiquito dome!
Fully chiped 12b rapbolted sport by no other than Mr Doe!
Why are all his routes 12's I guess he just can get past that # ha ha ha!
THEN 25 MINUTES LATER from Medusa...
Yea bro!
They put up some squezes jobs with chipped holds at the Devils Punchbowl!
I chopped them!
Its about time someone started to Report about these Destroyers of rock.
That good climbers could climb with out the enhancements that these guys do!
Its really sad!
And it makes climbers look really bad with the Land managers!
NEXT DAY...
There tactics are find a cliff!
Set an anchor!
Rap and drill!
Set the bolts!
before even tr the thing!
Then drill and carve the holds
to fill in the dots!
Thats what happend at Acton crag that Loomis developed before Doe even knew what climbing was!
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!