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Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
OT
sentience: what counts is the number of connections

Dial F for Frankenstein
Arthur C Clarke
1961
first published in Playboy, January 1964

the text via google books


http://www.davidpaulkirkpatrick.com/2012/08/15/dial-f-for-frankenstein-the-birth-of-the-world-wide-web/
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 07:24pm PT


United Coalition of Reason
list of cities at
http://unitedcor.org/sitemap
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Sep 6, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
If you don't believe and IF there is no God at all, you got nothing to worry about!
What me worry...
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 6, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
If you do believe and you finally find out there is no God at all,...

you're in for some big disappointment. And all that time you spent memorizing and posting bible verses could've been spent actually doing something constructive for mankind.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Sep 6, 2013 - 08:16pm PT
That's why I like you Go-B, you're always in a good mood.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 6, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
you're in for some big disappointment

Skepti,
you do see the irony in your post to go-B?

.....

If you don't believe and IF there is no God at all, you got nothing to worry about!

You mean other than religious militant fundamentalist zealots getting their hands on nuclear material in the name of God Jehovah in this world, right?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 6, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
These are bio functions that we can observe as having certain mechanical processes. A machine, as every schoolboy knows, is something else. What's more, none of those processes you mentioned have the capacity to detect and explain sentience, which is what the discussion is about.

that's an interesting statement...

if you presume that evolution is responsible for those machines, and that evolution is responsible for us, then those "processes," all related, have the capacity to detect and explain sentience...

it is certainly consistent with the theory of how it all came to be, that is, the theory of evolution.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
Some issues for which the Moral Majority campaigned included:

* Censorship of media outlets that promote an "anti-family" agenda
* Enforcement of a traditional vision of family life
* Opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment and Strategic Arms Limitation Talks
* Opposition to state recognition and acceptance of homosexual acts
* Outlawing abortion in all cases
* Targeting Jews and other non-Christians for conversion to conservative Christianity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Majority
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 6, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
Right Malemute....that's why I don't hate christianity but, right wing christians, well they certainly do provide good reason for my definition of hate.
MisterE

climber
Sep 6, 2013 - 09:30pm PT
If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, and given that our living spirits possess a certain energy - Heaven must be bursting at the seams with potential energy.

Just a thought.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 6, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
Funniest sh#t of the day!

I think fruity and mutemale should get a room. Imagine the pillow talk. Star Trek quotes and equations. I'm wet just thinking about it.
Come'on now ur gonna make Skepti jealous !!!

BWWAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAA!
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Sep 6, 2013 - 10:52pm PT
"I am satisfied with, is that lines and lines of evidence across many and various sciences all in a convergent pattern point to "mental life" as brain function."

My only contention with this that consciousness is "created" by the brain (a little like an avalanche "creates" gravity), that any other notion is creationism or God talk or boogy man shite, and that while we can look at the brain as a mega great data processor, no neuroscientist alive has made one step toward showing how the brain "creates" subjective experience. Ed chimed in and suggested that bio machines can not only detect but explain sentience, so have at it. You will invariably be left with either saying this is a trick question and we're just not there yet per our neuroscience, or you'll collapse objective functioning into sentience, or bark out that daft dirge that "consciousness is what the brain does," as though that explains anything to anyone's satisfaction. That's just a sill piece of ad copy.

But I'm sick of this circular argument. I'm convinced that to understand what is at play here you have to first understand the discursive reasoning that insists consciousness IS mechanical. Once you see how that works, and more importantly, how it does NOT work, namely what limits discursive thinking has, then the rest unfolds pretty quickly. But again, looking inside is not allowed to people on this list, apparently. Granted, it's not for everyone.


And the so-called charicature of machines learning to love was actually a quote from some swindler who had jobbed a huge amount of money from many sources to study consciousness and so forth. Can't remember his name.

But the interesting fact remains that if we can explain consciounsness totally in mechanical terms, then a conscious, non-organic machine is at least a possibility.

People interested in this might find this article interesting:

https://www.bigquestionsonline.com/content/will-machines-ever-become-human
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 6, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
(a little like an avalanche "creates" gravity)

the crux of the biscuit
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:08pm PT
The great enemy of the truth is very often not the lie, deliberate, contrived and
dishonest, but the myth, persistent, persuasive and unrealistic. Belief in myths allows the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
John F. Kennedy
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:18pm PT
Religion supports nobody. It has to be supported. It produces no wheat, no corn; it ploughs no land; it fells no forests. It is a perpetual mendicant. It lives on the labors of others, and then has the arrogance to pretend that it supports the giver… Ministers say that they teach charity. That is natural. They live on alms. All beggars teach that others should give…
Robert Ingersoll
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:24pm PT


Sep 6, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
Funniest sh#t of the day!

I think fruity and mutemale should get a room. Imagine the pillow talk. Star Trek quotes and equations. I'm wet just thinking about it.
Come'on now ur gonna make Skepti jealous !!!

BWWAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAA!

Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:27pm PT
There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.
Socrates
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:31pm PT
… among all nations the spirit of the priesthood, their system of conduct, their actions their morals, were absolutely the same:

• That they had everywhere formed secret associations and corporations at enmity with the rest of society;

• That they had everywhere attributed to themselves prerogatives and immunities, by means of which they lived exempt from the burdens of other classes;

• That they everywhere avoided the toils of the laborer, the dangers of the soldier, and the disappointments of the merchant…

• That, under the cloak of poverty, they found everywhere the secret of procuring wealth and all sorts of enjoyments;

• That under the name of mendicity they raised taxes to a greater amount than princes;

• That in the form of gifts and offerings they had established fixed and certain revenues exempt from charges;

• That under pretence of retirement and devotion they lived in idleness and licentiousness;

• That they had made a virtue of alms-giving, to live quietly on the labors of others;

• That they had invented the ceremonies of worship, as a means of attracting the reverence of the people, while they were playing the parts of gods, of whom they styled themselves the interpreters and mediators, to assume all their powers; that, with this design, they had (according to the degree of ignorance or information of their people) assumed by turns the character of astrologers, drawers of horoscopes, fortune-tellers, magicians, necromancers, quacks, physicians, courtiers, confessors of princes, always aiming at the great object to govern for their own advantage;

• That sometimes they had exalted the power of kings and consecrated their persons, to monopolize their favors, or participate their sway;

• That sometimes they had preached up the murder of tyrants (reserving it to themselves to define tyranny), to avenge themselves of their contempt or their disobedience;

• And that they always stigmatized with impiety whatever crossed their interests;

• That they hindered all public instruction, to exercise the monopoly of science;

• That finally, at all times and in all places, they had found the secret of living in peace in the midst of the anarchy they created, in safety under the despotism that they favored, in idleness amidst the industry they preached, and in abundance while surrounded with scarcity; and all this by carrying on the singular trade of selling words and gestures to credulous people, who purchase them as commodities of the greatest value.

Constantin Francois de Volney
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 6, 2013 - 11:38pm PT
^^^^ that's Precious!
Wonder where you fit in
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