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TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 6, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
But what if its a rheostat?

But what if it's not linear at all?



High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 6, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
You mentioned a royal road to sentience

Again, sometimes you have to read a post more carefully. This allusion was to your education process in life sciences. That's what the famous "royal road" references here. In one post you jump from talking about "machinery" and its definition (about which you're confused, about which you have an old 19th century definition if not understanding) to consciousness. No wonder there is so much mis-communication about.

An example "machinery of life" is photosynthesis apparatus. This was identified. There are thousands of such examples in cellular biology and beyond across the life sciences. It takes effort to learn about them obviously.

The point was the more learning in these areas concerning the machinery of life is stacked up, the more it positions one (in this case, you) to appreciate the claim that mental life aka consciousness is what brain does.

Later...
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 6, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
But what if it's not linear at all?

In large part, it's not linear. The bulk of it is probably non-linear and at many levels chaotic.

But perhaps your post was for entertainment? only you know whether or not you got dmt's point.

I figure you did. As that's a pretty cool gif there.
Completely mechanistic (deterministic), btw.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 6, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
Jim,

you should bring that back, go ahead call me biased but that was awesome!

Bring it back, it'll be first up on the page! :)
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Sep 6, 2013 - 07:01pm PT
Sacred circuits:










Credit: Jim Brennan
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 6, 2013 - 07:04pm PT
One answer to the OP question:

Because its views concerning sex, women and cleanliness are more than a wee bit out-dated.

.....

Jim,

No good reason philosophizing about science shouldn't be entertaining as well. ;)
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 07:08pm PT
OT
sentience: what counts is the number of connections

Dial F for Frankenstein
Arthur C Clarke
1961
first published in Playboy, January 1964

the text via google books


http://www.davidpaulkirkpatrick.com/2012/08/15/dial-f-for-frankenstein-the-birth-of-the-world-wide-web/
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 07:24pm PT


United Coalition of Reason
list of cities at
http://unitedcor.org/sitemap
go-B

climber
Hebrews 1:3
Sep 6, 2013 - 07:55pm PT
If you don't believe and IF there is no God at all, you got nothing to worry about!
What me worry...
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 6, 2013 - 08:15pm PT
If you do believe and you finally find out there is no God at all,...

you're in for some big disappointment. And all that time you spent memorizing and posting bible verses could've been spent actually doing something constructive for mankind.
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Sep 6, 2013 - 08:16pm PT
That's why I like you Go-B, you're always in a good mood.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 6, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
you're in for some big disappointment

Skepti,
you do see the irony in your post to go-B?

.....

If you don't believe and IF there is no God at all, you got nothing to worry about!

You mean other than religious militant fundamentalist zealots getting their hands on nuclear material in the name of God Jehovah in this world, right?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Sep 6, 2013 - 08:59pm PT
These are bio functions that we can observe as having certain mechanical processes. A machine, as every schoolboy knows, is something else. What's more, none of those processes you mentioned have the capacity to detect and explain sentience, which is what the discussion is about.

that's an interesting statement...

if you presume that evolution is responsible for those machines, and that evolution is responsible for us, then those "processes," all related, have the capacity to detect and explain sentience...

it is certainly consistent with the theory of how it all came to be, that is, the theory of evolution.
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 09:01pm PT
Some issues for which the Moral Majority campaigned included:

* Censorship of media outlets that promote an "anti-family" agenda
* Enforcement of a traditional vision of family life
* Opposition to the Equal Rights Amendment and Strategic Arms Limitation Talks
* Opposition to state recognition and acceptance of homosexual acts
* Outlawing abortion in all cases
* Targeting Jews and other non-Christians for conversion to conservative Christianity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_Majority
donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Sep 6, 2013 - 09:06pm PT
Right Malemute....that's why I don't hate christianity but, right wing christians, well they certainly do provide good reason for my definition of hate.
MisterE

climber
Sep 6, 2013 - 09:30pm PT
If energy can neither be created nor destroyed, and given that our living spirits possess a certain energy - Heaven must be bursting at the seams with potential energy.

Just a thought.
BLUEBLOCR

Social climber
joshua tree
Sep 6, 2013 - 09:52pm PT
Funniest sh#t of the day!

I think fruity and mutemale should get a room. Imagine the pillow talk. Star Trek quotes and equations. I'm wet just thinking about it.
Come'on now ur gonna make Skepti jealous !!!

BWWAAAHAAAAHAAAHAAA!
Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 10:11pm PT
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Sep 6, 2013 - 10:52pm PT
"I am satisfied with, is that lines and lines of evidence across many and various sciences all in a convergent pattern point to "mental life" as brain function."

My only contention with this that consciousness is "created" by the brain (a little like an avalanche "creates" gravity), that any other notion is creationism or God talk or boogy man shite, and that while we can look at the brain as a mega great data processor, no neuroscientist alive has made one step toward showing how the brain "creates" subjective experience. Ed chimed in and suggested that bio machines can not only detect but explain sentience, so have at it. You will invariably be left with either saying this is a trick question and we're just not there yet per our neuroscience, or you'll collapse objective functioning into sentience, or bark out that daft dirge that "consciousness is what the brain does," as though that explains anything to anyone's satisfaction. That's just a sill piece of ad copy.

But I'm sick of this circular argument. I'm convinced that to understand what is at play here you have to first understand the discursive reasoning that insists consciousness IS mechanical. Once you see how that works, and more importantly, how it does NOT work, namely what limits discursive thinking has, then the rest unfolds pretty quickly. But again, looking inside is not allowed to people on this list, apparently. Granted, it's not for everyone.


And the so-called charicature of machines learning to love was actually a quote from some swindler who had jobbed a huge amount of money from many sources to study consciousness and so forth. Can't remember his name.

But the interesting fact remains that if we can explain consciounsness totally in mechanical terms, then a conscious, non-organic machine is at least a possibility.

People interested in this might find this article interesting:

https://www.bigquestionsonline.com/content/will-machines-ever-become-human
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 6, 2013 - 10:54pm PT
(a little like an avalanche "creates" gravity)

the crux of the biscuit
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