Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1561 - 1580 of total 2260 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 6, 2013 - 02:08pm PT
Largo wrote,
A machine, as every schoolboy knows, is something else.

No, no, no.

Each of these processes have their supporting micro "machinery" of life.

A bacterium should be easily conceived as a micro-machine. In part and in whole. Can you do that?

If you were a King, I'd say to you... There is no royal road, your Majesty, to consciousness and sentience. There is a process. You have to take it in baby steps.

Signal transduction throughout the cell and the living body is a control system process. The only way it works is by way of its underlying micro machinery.

Get out your microscope and books and go sit for awhile in that corner you're always talking about. Wiki, btw, doesn't cut it. ;)


.....

chasing your tails in circles & wasting thousands of words upon an audience of deaf ears

O Wise One,

you know everyone's goals here? perhaps they are not yours, lol!
WBraun

climber
Sep 6, 2013 - 02:09pm PT
Oh go away ya losers and pussies...

You've been trolled, pawned and owned yourself by posting to this stupid thread.

The whole forum is full of stupid threads and trolls.

It's all entertainment ......
locker

Social climber
Some Rehab in Bolivia
Sep 6, 2013 - 02:11pm PT


Malemute

Ice climber
the ghost
Sep 6, 2013 - 03:16pm PT
I can't believe that a troll thread from 4 years ago has garnered over 1200 posts in the past month. Most of which have nothing to do with why does everyone hate Christianity so much?
it seems to be more of a belief contest at this point, if there even is a point.
Trolled, in every sense of the term you all have been, chasing your tails in circles & wasting thousands of words upon an audience of deaf ears. Trolled by each other, Christian Jesus, science, & new age thinking. Hilarious.
Any teenager with google can find this thread and see the quality of posts by both the theists and the atheists. The theists are far more likely to use insults. Thus they demonstrate that they are not very christian; giving the undecided an excellent reason to give religion the thumbs down. And the off topic posts are just another way the christians evade the issue.

Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 6, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
You've been trolled, pawned and owned yourself by posting to this stupid thread.

And yet here you are...
Marlow

Sport climber
OSLO
Sep 6, 2013 - 03:31pm PT
Skeptimistic

Hehe... yes that's the nature of WBraun... stupid to the bone...

Myself, I will not write anything more ... on this thread, today ...

I'm not stupid...

Lol...
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 6, 2013 - 03:39pm PT
Largo- Have you read "The Selfish Gene?" Perhaps the "machinery" is really what is driving reproduction and evolution, not the functional organism that transports it..
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Sep 6, 2013 - 04:32pm PT
DNA is an alien virus. The body's soul [sic] purpose is to be used to reproduce the alien molecule.

Didn't you all watch Alien for fuksake????

DMT
Largo

Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
Sep 6, 2013 - 04:39pm PT
I have no idea where yhou wandered off to in your thinking, Frunty. My point was that mechanical investigations beget mechanical processes, not sentience. You mentioned a royal road to sentience, the belief being it is simple mechanical output of the meat brain.

Kindly tell us at what point in the "process" or along the royal road is sentience sucddenly "created" by the mechanical processes you reference?

Also, Bryan raisd some interesting points:

"Why do you assume that when a carbon/nitrogen/oxygen based brain sends electrical signals across itself that it creates "consciousness," but when a silicon/copper/silver based computer chip does more or less the same thing, it doesn't result in consciousness?"

I, personally, don't assume that anythig n"creates" consciousness.

More Bryan:

'"Life" in the biological sense, is only necessary for consciousness insofar as the neurons in our brains have to be alive to work properly. A computer doesn't require cellular metabolism to function, so the fact that it's inorganic shouldn't exempt it from experiencing consciousness."'

If, in fact, consciousness can be explained and replicated entirely as a mechanical process. Then we'll have computers in love, as that one whacko snake oil salesman promised "by 2020."

JL


JL
Dingus Milktoast

Gym climber
And every fool knows, a dog needs a home, and...
Sep 6, 2013 - 04:43pm PT
Why does it have to be 'suddenly?'

Why not an ever so slow emerging, generation upon generation of natural selection?

Creationists are always looking for the light switch. But what if its a rheostat?

DMT
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Sep 6, 2013 - 05:17pm PT
^^^perfect!^^
dirtbag

climber
Sep 6, 2013 - 05:18pm PT
Werner nails it. Damnit.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 6, 2013 - 06:28pm PT
Largo wrote,
If, in fact, consciousness can be explained and replicated entirely as a mechanical process. Then we'll have computers in love

See, this is the caricature.

Not one researcher (neuroscientist, analytical bioengineer, e.g., or cognitive scientist) in a thousand is cocky enough to say this. But this IS the caricature, and today once again it is yours.

Every serious researcher or scientist (amateur or pro) in the field realizes design by evolution (over millions of generations) is altogether different than design by human engineering. In that difference is where the Grand Mystery lies.

I only wish you could... stretch enough or whatever... to appreciate these points.

The Grand Mystery which you caricature... otherwise the Brain Magic which you disparage... is an extraordinary thing that's drawn, and continues to draw, thousands of bright serious students to study it. Maybe someday "consciousness" as a set of brain circuit functions will be figured out. Then again maybe in its fullness it won't. But an important understanding for now, here at the start of the 21st century, and one that I am satisfied with, is that lines and lines of evidence across many and various sciences all in a convergent pattern point to "mental life" as brain function.

Imo, you grossly underestimate the power of circuitry and signal transduction in a system designed not by human engineering but by evolution and natural selection over millions of years and generations.

If you haven't read Selfish Gene, I think it would be worth your while. On one hand, you show a passion; yet on the other hand, somehow you don't. It's weird.

Or it's entertainment. ;)
WBraun

climber
Sep 6, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
Maybe someday "consciousness" as a set of brain circuit functions will be figured out.

Where have you been.

Sleeping of course for the last trillion years.

Since day one consciousness has been understood and revealed.

Only now in the stupid century of knuckle headed lab coats who forgot how to use their brains do they make ridiculous stupid statements like yours.

Your dumb machines will never figure out intelligence.

Life comes from life and intelligence comes from intelligence.

Modern lab coats come from pond scum with no intelligence ......
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Sep 6, 2013 - 06:43pm PT
You've been trolled, pawned and owned yourself by posting to this stupid thread.

Excuse the biblical reference, but OH GOD!, this is so f-ing ironic.

It's like one lobster saying to the others, "You are all idiots for ending up in this pot of boiling water."

Dave
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Sep 6, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
But what if its a rheostat?

But what if it's not linear at all?



High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 6, 2013 - 06:51pm PT
You mentioned a royal road to sentience

Again, sometimes you have to read a post more carefully. This allusion was to your education process in life sciences. That's what the famous "royal road" references here. In one post you jump from talking about "machinery" and its definition (about which you're confused, about which you have an old 19th century definition if not understanding) to consciousness. No wonder there is so much mis-communication about.

An example "machinery of life" is photosynthesis apparatus. This was identified. There are thousands of such examples in cellular biology and beyond across the life sciences. It takes effort to learn about them obviously.

The point was the more learning in these areas concerning the machinery of life is stacked up, the more it positions one (in this case, you) to appreciate the claim that mental life aka consciousness is what brain does.

Later...
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 6, 2013 - 06:52pm PT
But what if it's not linear at all?

In large part, it's not linear. The bulk of it is probably non-linear and at many levels chaotic.

But perhaps your post was for entertainment? only you know whether or not you got dmt's point.

I figure you did. As that's a pretty cool gif there.
Completely mechanistic (deterministic), btw.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
Potemkin Village
Sep 6, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
Jim,

you should bring that back, go ahead call me biased but that was awesome!

Bring it back, it'll be first up on the page! :)
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Sep 6, 2013 - 07:01pm PT
Sacred circuits:










Credit: Jim Brennan
Messages 1561 - 1580 of total 2260 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews