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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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"In 15 years I haven't. There are certain things that you just shouldn't be missing. This is one of them."
Well then you are Christ Himself walking among us.
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golsen
Social climber
kennewick, wa
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Very sad, my condolences.
It would seem that nowadays many climbers do not understand the time honored ideal that gear is cheap, webbing and a good knot is particularly cheap and leaving some to save yourself is ok.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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"It would seem that nowadays many climbers do not understand the time honored ideal that gear is cheap, webbing and a good knot is particularly cheap and leaving some to save yourself is ok."
I don't think younger generations of climbers have any particular problem with leaving gear or webbing but rather with recognizing there might be a need to do so.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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"Well then you are Christ Himself walking among us. "
No, I'm just not an idiot. Not clipping directly into the anchor is one of the things that should not just casualy happen.
I'm incredibly paranoid about anchors. Always have been, always will be.
Nuff said.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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"Maybe he always clipped the anchor and just missed it this time. Who hasn't done that? "
Ummm... I haven't either. I'm pretty sure that the people I climb with haven't done this either. Certainly not when they've climbed with me. Maybe I'm Christ too? Or... Maybe securing myself to the anchor is the first thing I do whenever I reach/build one.... Just sayin'.
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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"Ummm... I haven't either. I'm pretty sure that the people I climb with haven't done this either. Certainly not when they've climbed with me. Maybe I'm Christ too? Or... Maybe securing myself to the anchor is the first thing I do whenever I reach/build one.... Just sayin'."
I mean, I'm pretty safe, but are you seriously telling me you've locked your locking biner every time? Do you use two slings for extra redundancy every time? Never forgot your helmet on the ground? Never not rapelled with a prusik? Never placed a piece that fell out when you climbed above it? Not even once? Never placed a piece a LITTLE bit outside the margin of error for a ledge fall?
I'm anal, to be sure, but human error is just that: human. If you don't think you've ever made a mistake, maybe you just didn't notice.
I haven't been to that spot in the Red about a year, but I seem to remember it being a very, very big ledge, possibly as large as some of the potential belays on After Six. The ledge is where the tree's growing from in this photo, a bit hard to put it together: http://www.rockclimbing.com/images/photos/assets/1/265241-largest_7002.jpg
I'm just giving a climber with 13 years of experience the credit he deserves.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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i'm not here to beat anyone up, but-
no, i have never "missed" that either.
yes i have forgotten to lock a locking biner, other things of that magnitude, sure.
you simply cannot make any comparison to not clipping in directly.
those are not the same, not in any way, shape, or form.
if in fact the descriptions are accurate and one climber was lowering the other off of tat, while not in direct himself, even though they had bolts to clip and gear to clip with, that is so mind-boggling that i have to question it. in fact i suspect that it's somehow inaccurate. who would do that? no way...
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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"if in fact the descriptions are accurate and one climber was lowering the other off of tat, while not in direct himself, even though they had bolts to clip and gear to clip with, that is so mind-boggling that i have to question it. in fact i suspect that it's somehow inaccurate. who would do that? no way..."
In truth, yeah, I've never missed that identical clip-in, but all the stuff I listed can go very very bad in a freak accident.
I guess I just want to give context. If it's the ledge I'm thinking of, it's like belaying from the ground. A close comparison is the top of the first pitch of Super Slab. I've witnessed many parties belay from it without placing pro for the belayer
...but then, there's little chance of rolling back like there is, say, at the base of Catchy (where a leader fall at the start is potentially bad for both people involved).
We won't know. Just stuff to think about...
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Missing a finishing off a locking biner is one thing. Missing the point of having a redundant anchor is entirely another.
I'm at a loss to even remotely understand your insistance on this issue.
Face it, if you continue climbing with this attitude, we could well be reading your obituary at some point.
I'm not trying to be mean and nasty here. Maybe you really need to think your approach to climbing through again.
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goatboywonder
Trad climber
Iowa City, IA
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Wow, this is sad. It is always especially bad when you know the area where it happened. I climbed Whiteout with my wife and a buddy about a year ago. Don't remember much about the climb. It sounds like they traversed over to another route as listed in the description here:
http://www.redriverclimbing.com/RRCGuide/show_route.php?id=2050
Note it calls for "hand size pieces for the belay".
Super sad.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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I have rappelled of tattered slings and single rusted bolts.'
Sorry to the families, but accidents happen in the world of the vertical.
Juan
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jstan
climber
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There it is again.
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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Rlf:
Yeah, I see where I've been thinking too much now and not reading enough. When I suggested you were a bit too perfect, I was responding to me thinking you said you never made mistakes, not never made [this particular mistake].
I guess I'm just trying to make sense of it. I've been on that route, and besides that, the Red's where I go to climb outside when I get the chance. I never spent much time with Ben or Laura but will definitely notice Ben's absence when I'm there now.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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What Matt said. Period.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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I've often clipped just the slings on an anchor, when:
 they are around a big tree
they go through a tunnel in the rock
they are through bolts, but there are too many slings, so the hangers are blocked from me clipping into them directly
(if a couple of slings are good, this is fine; if all are crusty I remove some with my knife until I can clip a hanger and later insert my own sling)
Clipping just the slings on bolts (if some are good) is OK for rappelling; not OK for belaying.
Clipping just the sling would minimize extension if one of the bolts failed, assuming you do not have a separate sling to clip both bolts. This also assumes the sling is good.
Clipping just the sling is weaker than clipping a bolt, since the webbing can be cut over a narrow hanger. This should only matter for a big load like a leader fall or factor 2 fall, or if the sling is quite weak it would matter a lot.
Usually when I rappel, there is no lowering. If I'm much more experienced than my partner I rappel first and set up the next anchor. Then my partner follows. This has the disadvantage of not being able to check their rappel setup unless you are concerned enough that you have them put their rappel device on the rope above yours before you head down.
I test the slings by jerking on them, if they look crusty. But as Rich pointed out, it's also important to check around the back of the tree, chockstone, or tunnel.
It's good to place backup gear, if you can't immediately inspect the entire path of the slings.
When it's a single sling through two bolts, it should be possible to clip the hangers directly. If your biner noses are too big to fit into the hangers, you may be able to thread a sling into the hanger.
If you don't clip a hanger or chain link directly, and there is a single sling or single chain, you don't have redundancy, as we know. Just like the triple fatality on the Nose in the early 70s, when they clipped over the chain instead of into a link, and one of the hangers broke. Todd Skinner died when a nonredundant (and perhaps difficult-to-inspect) part of his harness failed.
All of us know this stuff, and I expect Ben did too. (Hopefully Laura did too, but it sounds like Ben was more experienced, so that would normally make him responsible for checking things). The main thing is to stay alert and use a redundant clip in, or at least test the anchor while still on rappel, if you have no way to make it redundant.
I would like to see the remainder of the sling tested.
There are other potential scenarios for the accident - it would help to know how much rope was between them, and what if any gear was clipped onto the rope. Also, did Laura have a daisy chain (or similar personal anchor) with a biner clipped to her harness (as if she is being lowered), or is the biner free (as if she was anchored at the sling). Similarly, did Ben have an anchor sling deployed, or clipped to his harness? Who had the rack of gear?
What would explain why they didn't land in the same spot? I don't know the cliff geometry [edit: see below], so I can't answer this or even guess well.
Here is some route info, from redriverclimbing.com:
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7a. The Man Behind the Curtain 5.11a (Trad)
Begin by climbing Whiteout but finish to the tree ledge out right instead of at the anchors out left. From the big tree on the
ledge, rap halfway down the wall to a small ledge. Crawl around the arete and end up at a small belay stance below this
extremely steep, featureless, acute dihedral. Climb the crack to chain anchors. Hand sized pieces for the belay, fingers for the
crack
FA: Kris Hampton 2006
Trad gear, 40 feet, Chains, Moves: Fingers
8. Whiteout 5.8 *** (Trad)
This route is located about 100 feet left of Friable near the main arete of the wall where No Place Like Home begins. Climb up
easy ground via a left-facing flake and belay. Continue up the handcrack in a dihedral and move left onto the face when the
crack fades out.
FA: John Bronaugh, Ron Snider 1984
Trad gear, 100 feet, Rap anchors-60m rope required
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Here is the geometry of the cliff, drawn by Domingo; I added the labels:
Here is one possible alternative scenario:
1. They start at the anchor tree (A) at the top right of Whiteout (100' above the ground).
2. Ben lowers Laura to the sling anchor (B) below Man Behind the Curtain, 40' below him. She clips into the sling, instead of a bolt hanger. Maybe she just has a single daisy chain for clipping in. (This is very common, but it's best to have a second sling or clip in with the rope to make it redundant unless you are doing a long rappel route and need to save time).
3. [complete guess:] Ben unclips from the tree at 100' and falls off, somewhere in the process of setting up a rappel there.
He falls 80' until the rope comes tight and his belay device catches, which puts a factor 2 fall onto the sling, and it fails, pulling Laura down.
In this scenario, since Ben falls farther than Laura, he bounces more at the base and ends up further down the hill at the base.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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(randy, i have to admit, i like the sound of that... =)
domingo-
it sounds to me like you are just trying to cut the poor kid some slack, no harm done in that effort.
rlf-
it may not be fair to assume she is unsafe, simply because she can see how another would miss something. not being critical of others and being unsafe in one's one practices are not the same thing.
let us all recommit ourselves to our own safe practices, our double-checks of ourselves and our partners and the safety systems upon which we rely, our back-ups and redundancies, and our consciously taking the time to stop and look at our stuff, and think about what we are doing- and let's all encourage our partners and friends to do the same.
after all, i can only think of one thing worse than hearing a terrible story about the tragic and avoidable passing of a climber i don't know...
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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No problems Domingo. Believe me, I've made plenty of mistakes, and I was damn lucky I survived some of them.
Mistakes happen, we all make them from time to time. But when it comes to anchors, I'm just such a sissy that I won't let my mind wander.
The other thing to note here is that if you (meaning anyone) screws up at the anchor, the whole team is in peril or worse.
Like what happened here.
Take care. Sorry if my tone is harsh, I really am that way in person. I speak my mind.
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John Vawter
Social climber
San Diego
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My sincere condolences to the family. The following is more analysis and may be disturbing to friends and family.
Dario wrote:
"They must have put the rope through the rap ring and started lowering Laura. The webbing broke, pulling Ben with her. There was no gear on the anchors, so we think he went in direct to the sling that he was lowering her with."
Forgive me if this point was made already, but this sounds like a case of having all the eggs in one basket. Dario's observation above suggests that Ben was clipped into the sling that he was lowering Laura on, and which failed. He was not clipped in directly to either of the two bolts through which the worn sling was threaded. Had he clipped directly into both bolts, it likely would not have been a fatal accident unless both bolts failed. So, yes, replace the tat, but always clip in directly to the anchor bolts.
P.S. And under Clint's alternative theory, Laura did not clip into the bolts either. My point is just that even if you have a knife and new sling with you, clip the bolts.
However, I have seen old hangers so crammed full of ancient, petrified slingage that you can't push a biner through the hanger without first cutting the tat away.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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clint (nancy drew?)-
i was pondering something like that as well.
i forget the specifics now, but it sounded as if they had very little (i.e. nothing) clipped and lots of rope between them, plus she was tied in and yet she'd only been climbing a few years, and he was belaying (or lowering?), while he was the more experienced, and they were going to climb a 5.11 on gear...
it doesn't add up as a failure while rapping to the ground-
doesn't add up as a failure while she was on lead-
maybe there is some sense in your little theory?
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Could it have been that they both made the ledge, made a belay by clipping the sling, then she set off to lead the pitch and fell prior to placing any gear, he catches the fall which also pulls him off the ledge?
Prod.
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