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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Aug 16, 2018 - 02:43pm PT
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No, it is not going away. But if it did, would it's spectators do similarly?
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johntp
Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
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Aug 16, 2018 - 02:46pm PT
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Don't get your perspective from BD catalogs; subscribe to Alpinist. It's still an active activity.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Aug 16, 2018 - 03:04pm PT
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The majority who have posted feel this type of climbing will endure, if not increase. I feel the numbers will increase particularly since there are more people climbing outside, and a proportion of those will become alpinist. The climbs I remember most were the close calls, in severe storms, or really hanging it out there, and this will always appeal to a few.
If I wasn't so damn old, I would be still doing it.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Aug 16, 2018 - 03:12pm PT
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There will always be young climbers, evolving into Alpinist to replace the old guard.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 16, 2018 - 03:17pm PT
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What a bunch of has beens.
;)
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Jer_
Sport climber
Seattle
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Aug 16, 2018 - 03:33pm PT
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Well I'm a certified Millennial (TM), and I am, and know many people my age that are drawn to the "hard alpine."
Sure, plastic climbing is huge these days, but I see the plastic as a positive filter to the local crags. There are 100 people my age who see a well taken and edited climbing photo on Instagram or what not, and think "I should give that a shot." And they end up at the gyms, sweating out V-easys. Few of them progress to the nearby outdoor crags, and even fewer of them make it to the nearby trad/alpine multis. Climbing, due to the internet, has a bigger stage than ever, and the gyms provide a useful and necessary filter. I don't stress about the plastic.
I digress though. I grew up bagging hike-in peaks with my folks, and have always felt the burn, excitement and call of the ever-mysterious peaks in the distance. I'm young and soft, but I'm orienting myself toward it, and plan to go and get it. We're trying to pay our dues in our own way.
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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Aug 16, 2018 - 03:53pm PT
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Aug 16, 2018 - 05:05pm PT
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nah.
as with war, the only thing that ebbs and flows is the public’s voyeuristic appetite towards it...
and so every generation perennially relearns some hard truths regarding said voyeurism.
but alpinism itself?
as long as humans can’t flap their arms and fly it’ll remain compelling to some...
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 16, 2018 - 06:35pm PT
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Why be cold and wet when you can be warm and dry?
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Aug 16, 2018 - 07:16pm PT
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When I first visited Patagonia in 2001, there were about four or five teams sharing Rio Blanco camp with us for the whole 7 weeks we were there. Nobody stayed in town. Basically everyone knew everyone who was planning to attempt Fitzroy.
The last two times I was there (2015 and 2016) the number of climbers easily numbered in the hundreds. A friend climbed Supercanaleta with 11 other teams on the same day. We had four teams behind us on Mate Porro on the north pillar. In 2013 over a hundred people summitted Cerro Torre in a single day. Long queues are commonplace on all the normal routes. This is the venue that is renowned for long hard approaches, long difficult routes, and some of the worlds worst weather.
Up in the Alaska Range, routes that saw no traffic 20 years ago now have tent cities at the basecamp. Denali’s numbers haven’t moved much in 30 years but more people are trying the harder routes.
In the 1990’s, the contemporary generation of climbers of the day each could likewise tell you a long list of dead friends lost to the mountains, as could the prior generation.
In short, hard alpine climbing will continue, and in larger numbers.. The danger and uncertainty aren’t for everyone, but are at least subconsciously part of the attraction for those who are committed to it. Type 2 fun is no deterrent for certain people with loose screws. And the situations and scenery are just far more dramatic and inspiring than the average climbing gym blasting dub step music.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 16, 2018 - 07:21pm PT
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Reilly nails it. Rock climbing is a game of skill with minimal objective vs subjective dangers (think chess). Real alpine turns that on its head and presents way more objective dangers than subjective ones (think roulette). Bottom line is it's gambling and all the more so for hardcore alpinists pushing the boundaries.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 16, 2018 - 11:10pm PT
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RobertL: Roulette doesn’t offer much benefit to those optimising skill and intuition
Skill and intuition are subjective aspects of climbing and don't control the objective dangers, only hopefully allow you to navigate them. But as you push the boundaries in alpine you increasingly narrow the room you have to navigate those hazards down to the point where it is roulette or rolling the dice - pick the gambling metaphor of your choice.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Aug 17, 2018 - 12:23am PT
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But do you see any aesthetic lines up that photo?But do you see any aesthetic lines up that photo?
There’s that ridge entering the frame about half way up the right side, with a big pinnacle. Then it hooks right and takes the white stuff up to the summit ridge.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Aug 17, 2018 - 12:40am PT
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the important lesson here
hard trolling is forever.
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Degaine
climber
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Aug 17, 2018 - 01:24am PT
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JLP wrote:
Sure - but what truly defines personal achievement? Competition.
That's your definition of personal achievement. It's certainly not mine.
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Degaine
climber
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Aug 17, 2018 - 01:35am PT
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Robert L wrote:
For every mentioned American and Canuck in those photos and lists, there’s scores of Poles, French, Italians, Spaniards, Swiss, Brits, Argentinians, Chileans, Germans, Russians, Koreans and Japanese.
Chamonix has seemingly never been busier. Access to the bigger range valleys is getting logistically easier.
Indeed. This seems to be a very American-centric discussion - which is normal, forum posters are mostly American (and Californian).
There are new hard routes being put up or repeated in the Alps and Himalaya/Karakorum on a regular basis, we just don't hear about it in the US because the American mountain media doesn't cover these stories for what I think are two main reasons: 1) some of these routes often don't top out on a summit, and 2) the routes weren't put up/repeated by American climbers.
When the speed record for the Nose is broken for the umpteenth time, it seems we can't stop talking about it. But when a speed record is broken on one of the Alps' major north faces, hardly a peep on the US side of the Atlantic.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Aug 17, 2018 - 07:47am PT
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We don’t have any real alpine mountains in the lower 48. European tourist destinations like Zermatt, Grindelwald and Chamonix place people right at the base of some pretty dramatic peaks more in character with the Himalaya, making this style of climbing much more visible.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Aug 17, 2018 - 08:01am PT
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As others have said, with more climbers will come more alpinists, but because of the risk, the percentages will always be relatively small. But the high country is more crowded than ever.
When I was a young buck, my driving passion was the high peaks. I learned to rock climb because that was my ticket to big, gnarly mountains. Getting out when I could as I slogged through high school and a couple of college degrees, I came to realize how friggin' dangerous the alpine game is. While not losing any personal friends, I met people who later died climbing peaks soon after I met them. I was almost taken out by avalanche and rock fall. While I would not trade my experiences for anything I can imagine, those risks are real and will always limit the number of players, as they should!
BAd
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 17, 2018 - 08:36am PT
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Bottom line in cutting-edge alpine is you just have to have an appetite for more objective risk.
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