Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2018 - 04:20pm PT
|
Donini: Nearly all of the alpinists I’ve known have been lifers.
Me too, although, the attrition rate amongst my social group due to death, family obligations, injuries, and illnesses, is appalling.
I've been on a bit of a hiatus from serious alpine climbing for a few years. I'm not getting any younger, but I still have goals and intentions. Right now I'm just happy that I can even continue to dream and plan, realistically, of pursuing such objectives.
See you in the creek this fall, Jim?
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2018 - 04:27pm PT
|
When are you coming down Mark?
|
|
MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2018 - 04:37pm PT
|
Jim, Lisa and I will be around Moab from mid October to late November. We’ll definitely be in the creek for 1-2 day stints over that period. Would be fun to link up again!
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2018 - 04:38pm PT
|
Done
I’ll be around until Nov. 10 then off to NZ.
|
|
MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2018 - 05:02pm PT
|
Perfect, Jim. I’ll be in touch via email-
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2018 - 06:10pm PT
|
Climbing guides and hard alpinism don’t always go hand in glove. Today’s best alpinists look for routes that are technically extremely challenging but as safe from objective hazards as possible. Having said that....”safe” in this context is a relative term.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2018 - 06:38pm PT
|
Guides usually do a good job with their clients BUT this is about “hard alpinism” and NOT trade routes up mountains....there is a difference.
|
|
justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2018 - 07:07pm PT
|
I'm guessing "hard alpinists" aren't going extinct but they:
a) Don't spray about it online so you've never heard of them or
b) Are foreigners so we Americans ignore their achievements.
... but yeah- they unfortunately tend to die young.
|
|
JLP
Social climber
The internet
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2018 - 07:19pm PT
|
Nearly all of the alpinists I’ve known have been lifers. Yeah - all 10 of you at any given time on the active roster, half dead before 40.
|
|
AP
Trad climber
Calgary
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2018 - 07:55pm PT
|
How about Josh Wharton or Jonny Walsh?
These guys have raced up the hardest stuff up here.
Walsh's first ascent of a hard affair on the N Face of Alberta was done in 18 hours hut to hut, first attempt.
Hard alpinism is alive and well as long as guys like this are active.
|
|
ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
ne'er–do–well
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2018 - 10:37pm PT
|
|
|
MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
|
|
|
Sep 23, 2018 - 11:00pm PT
|
I was a climbing ranger on Rainier for the second half of the 1990’s, and in the early 90’s I was hanging frequently at the camps and climbing with the rangers there as a weekender- and I recall thinking the same thing about Willis Wall, and for that matter, similar routes anywhere- noting that they seemed to get more traffic in the 60’s and 70’s. In part that of course was all the FA’s of the different variations, but there were some repeat ascents. I can’t be certain but I don’t recall ever hearing of a Willis Wall ascent in the 90’s in my time working there. In fact since then I think maybe there’s been one or two at most.
Corniced ridges in Alaska and elsewhere also don’t see the attention they did 40 years ago. In general they might be a little safer than climbing under seracs....but I won’t be downplaying their dangers beyond that. Most of the premier, legitimately difficult corniced ridge routes in the central Alaska Range have between 1 and 3 ascents. Rising technical standards that have turned routes like the Moonflower into a day climb for some have not really made corniced ridges any easier or safer. They are just as terrifying and risky as they ever were.
I think the emphasis on all forms of climbing these days centers around technical difficulty, owing in part to the gym climbing generation, and I think this is why mountaineering has narrowed down its primary focus to the trade routes on the famous peaks; To make an admittedly broad generalization, Modern mountaineers largely just want to get to the summit by the easiest and safest routes possible. The obvious FA’s have been snagged and there’s little interest in extended approaches, objective hazatds, or dealing with the unknown. Alpinists by definition are focused more on pure technical difficulty and only a small number are interested in the routes where you’re pulling the devil’s tail by climbing under seracs or in serious rockfall zones.
But I definitely have had the same impression that routes with high objective hazards seemed to have gone through a popular phase decades ago. I look at some of the ascents made in Alaska in the 70’s and 80’s (Huntington’s east ridge and north face, Czech route on Foraker, south ridge and southeast spur of Hunter to name a few) and then look at what climbers are attempting today. It’s different- and I’m sure part of that also is that these sorts of routes were worth the risk for the notoriety or personal satisfaction of getting a first ascent, first alpine style ascent, etc. But with climate change making many routes considerably more hazardous, the risk just isn’t worth it for most.
The objective hazards of serious alpine climbing are legit and are almost always far higher than your average rock climbing venue. But it only takes one mistake in the belay chain to create a tragedy, whether you are on the Magic Line or Munginella. And in fact a significant number of the friends I knew who have died in the mountains lost their life because of a mistake in the belay chain, a momentary loss of attention at a critical time, or a questionable decision. These were things that easily could happen during a casual day at the crag.
Treat everything with full attention.
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 24, 2018 - 06:48am PT
|
“Acceptable risk thresholds” are often a function of how much a person wants to do a route. I’ve seen some serious rationalization concerning objective dangers because a route was very compelling. There is no definitive “acceptible” risk threshold...it lies strictly in the eyes of the beholder.
|
|
Don Paul
Social climber
Washington DC
|
|
|
Sep 24, 2018 - 07:12am PT
|
Hard alpinism ends at the point the climber wears a full on space suit with climate control and O2. Although if I were to climb a big Himalayan peak, I'd wear one too.
|
|
Todd Eastman
Social climber
Putney, VT
|
|
|
Sep 24, 2018 - 07:28am PT
|
It all sounds scary! 😊
|
|
ddriver
Trad climber
SLC, UT
|
|
|
Sep 24, 2018 - 07:51am PT
|
If you don't think hard alpinism is alive and well you probably haven't looked at your most recent American Alpine Journal. Before you file it on the shelf go ahead and open it. It has pictures and everything.
|
|
johnkelley
climber
Anchorage Alaska
|
|
|
Sep 24, 2018 - 12:22pm PT
|
Is self supported, non sponsored, self funded alpinism going to end is a better question?
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Sep 24, 2018 - 02:10pm PT
|
johnkelley, touché!
|
|
Trump
climber
|
|
|
Sep 24, 2018 - 02:12pm PT
|
I think I know the most famous rock climber who seems to take the biggest risks, but I’m not so sure I know who the rock climber who’s the most technically proficient is.
Does hard alpinism mean technically hard, or riskily hard? Seems like the attention goes more to the latter, at least in rock climbing?
|
|
donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
|
|
Sep 25, 2018 - 08:10pm PT
|
I like to think that technical difficulty is the most important ingredient in hard alpinism, but a certain amount of risk is inherent in all alpinism. Objective dangers abound and good alpinists mitigate them via timing and route selection. Risk can be mitigated but never completely eliminated.
A lot of the risk in pure rock climbing is artificially introduced by the style in which one climbs...free soloing being an obvious example.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!