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Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
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Aug 17, 2018 - 09:25am PT
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^ Hard. But do you see any aesthetic lines up that photo?
Some sick spines for board/two plank descent
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Aug 17, 2018 - 09:50am PT
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We don’t have any real alpine mountains in the lower 48.
I hesitate to question JLP as he's pretty much omniscient, but the Tetons seem pretty alpine to me . . .
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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Aug 17, 2018 - 10:24am PT
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rgold said:
Climbers practicing hard alpinism have always been a small fraction of the climbing population. Now that new explosively-growing genres have been added, hard alpinists are destined to become an even smaller fraction of the total population, and so are decreasing in that sense, even if their numbers are increasing, albeit more slowly than the total population.
Disagree. From what I see, there has always been a certain percentage of climbers who dabble in the alpine. Let's say 5%. I don't see that percentage changing.
Kids I've known from the climbing gym (and, granted I know of them because we talk about alpine climbing), gravitate towards the alpine. Or at least dip a toe in. Some end up going "all in". Some get a taste and it doesn't take.
So...no...I don't see it ending at all. And there's plenty of alpine climbing and/or "alpinism" available in the lower 48.
If the conquest of a great peak brings moments of exultation and bliss, which in the monotonous, materialistic existence of modern times nothing else can approach, it also presents great dangers. It is not the goal of grand alpinism to face peril, but it is one of the tests one must undergo to deserve the joy of rising for an instant above the state of crawling grubs. But soon we have to start the descent. Suddenly I feel sad and despondent. I am well aware that a mountaineering victory is only a scratch in space But in spite of this, how sad I feel at leaving that crest ! On this proud and beautiful mountain we have lived hours of fraternal, warm and exalting nobility. Here for a few days we have ceased to be slaves and have really been men. It is hard to return to servitude. Lionel Terray
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Aug 17, 2018 - 10:42am PT
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There isn't anything even remotely near the scale and difficulty in the lower 48 as the kinds of peaks killing off the guys listed in the OP. Holy sh!t no.
The Tetons are beginner land. Guys are going there now and knocking off the Grand Traverse as their first route - one and done - every peak in the range in under a day - then never coming back.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 17, 2018 - 10:45am PT
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We don’t have any real alpine mountains in the lower 48
I guess you haven’t been to the N Cascades. Not quite as big as the Alps but far more remote and untraveled.
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Don Paul
Social climber
Washington DC
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Aug 17, 2018 - 10:50am PT
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When the last glacier melts from global warming ...
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bit'er ol' guy
climber
the past
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Aug 17, 2018 - 11:16am PT
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its just getting started. The stuff guys are doing now is so BADAASS. Look at any AAJ-two dudes in the middle of nowhere doing an FA of a 5000' mixed route at 22,000'I'm not going anywhere near it. It aint the Valley, it aint the Bugs or "high" sierra. I found this out when I stepped out of the plane on the Ruth Gorge and went oh no! And that place is kind of entry level? I had to suck it up because I didn't want to let my partner down, and did a few good routes. but realized it was not for me. Don't criticize what you don't understand, or can't do yourself. For more information read Barry Blanchard's book "Rocked by Mountains" then think about YOUR current proj. You'll know where you stand.
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RRad
Trad climber
Poway, CA
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Aug 17, 2018 - 03:39pm PT
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By death or by choice we all retire from alpinism at some point, older generations will vanish and newer generations will reach harder and higher with the benefit of knowing what is already possible. There will always be people who are attracted to the sharp edge of oblivion.
But I do wonder if some of the people who previously would be focusing mostly on hard alpinism might be more enamored with proximity flying...
Not sure if this podcast has been mentioned, but check out the Cleared Hot podcast #47 with Mark Twight, three hour long conversation that deals with death and the loss of friends over many years for both Andy Stumpf and Mark Twight: https://clearedhotpodcast.com/episodes/
Especially relevant is the fact that Mark Twight actually retired from hard alpinism by choice.
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aspendougy
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 17, 2018 - 03:49pm PT
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It might be instructive to ask Charlie Porter about the relative fulfillment inherent in a 1st ascent of El Cap versus crawling out of the Baffin Island 1st ascent on his hands and knees. This may be an overly simplistic way of thinking about it, but my guess would be the former would be more fun with less suffering; the latter more suffering and less fun.
If one were to to ski into TM in mid-winter and to some routes on Fairview Dome, that might be "Traditional rock climbing" with a bit of alpine flavor. Has anyone done this?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 17, 2018 - 03:55pm PT
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I do wish we could still ask Charlie...
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Aug 17, 2018 - 05:17pm PT
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" No Alpine climbing in the lower 48"
This picture of Charlie Fowler, on Longs Peak, just before the big fall,
comes to mind.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Aug 17, 2018 - 06:01pm PT
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Longs Peak Oh the drama. I look like that shoveling my driveway. He's 2 hrs EZ walk to his car, ~70% on packed trail from all the traffic up there. Not that Long's isn't a pretty difficult objective in winter - but a joke in comparison - to even the Tetons.
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johntp
Trad climber
Little Rock and Loving It
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Aug 17, 2018 - 06:09pm PT
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Oh the drama. I look like that shoveling my driveway. He's 2 hrs EZ walk to his car, ~70% on packed trail from all the traffic up there. Not that Long's isn't a pretty difficult objective in winter - but a joke in comparison - to even the Tetons.
JLP: Just what is your definition an alpine climbing route?
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Aug 17, 2018 - 07:54pm PT
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There's always going to be dangerous routes that people will chose to do. Young people sit around, wondering how they can do it, and don't really start thinking about whether or not they should do it until about 25.
It's the Jeff Goldblum Jurrassic Park line, except instead of bringing T-rex back to 1994, it's applied to climbing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRNX6XJOeGU
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BeeTee
Social climber
Valdez Alaska
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Sep 23, 2018 - 10:29am PT
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I think the harsh realities of alpine are coming to light lately no doubt.....however sponsorship dollars more abundant now has an effect...plus given the fact the industry glosses over the realities .....I certainly have had been in the game to lose a number of close and not so close...in America it may die out but I don't see it slowing down from other countries...climbers forget families don't....as long as the industry keeps dedicating dollars and causes in the name of the unfortunate not much will change....I think it's an issue that could use some discussion but I don't see the industry leading the way on that...young folks these days aren't the hopeless romantics that once drove the sport...financial and practical reasons I could see the amateur alpinist would do well to reconsider there lifestyle choices...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Sep 23, 2018 - 02:32pm PT
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Missed this....question must be posed by someone who hasn’t done hard alpinism. Nearly all of the alpinists I’ve known have been lifers. It’s uncomfortable, scary and dangerous but the siren call is hard to resist.
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Flip Flop
climber
Earth Planet, Universe
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Sep 23, 2018 - 02:58pm PT
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Lack of accessibility is part of the appeal. It's not leaving soon.
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