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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 26, 2018 - 10:20am PT
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I'm giving Werner and his Pharma conspiracy the win on this.
To wrap it up and put a ribbon on it they need a homeless guy as a patsy.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jun 26, 2018 - 10:54am PT
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The officials immediately said they are not considering suicide.
If there was a gun found in the tent, you would have to consider suicide until the coroner ruled it out.
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BigB
Trad climber
Red Rock
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Jun 26, 2018 - 01:04pm PT
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GoFundMe is over $91,000
read the article^
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 26, 2018 - 01:12pm PT
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Gang initiation, an altercation with someone in the park earlier who came back to settle the score, or the wife showing up and doing it seems more likely to me It always strikes me as odd that people speculate about the mythic 'gang initiation' thing and rarely consider the possibility that it could have been a reckless gun owner. I've been out a number of times (elsewhere) and seen yahoos shooting guns off in the direction of a trail or at a trailhead where it is very likely that others will be in the area.
Having said that, this is really troubling to me. I've taken my kids out camping when they were only a little older than the victim's kids. I can't imagine what the family is dealing with right now.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 26, 2018 - 01:14pm PT
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Just want to observe that this thread seems to have a distinctly higher than average number of moronic postings regarding it being suicide or accident, when NO GUN WAS FOUND IN THE TENT AND THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO THINK THE DECEDENT HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH THE SHOOTING, INTENTIONALLY OR BY ACCIDENT.
And no, the government does not close down campgrounds and expel everyone when someone commits suicide or dies in an accident.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jun 26, 2018 - 03:45pm PT
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Shot came from a distance. That would rule out the mother. Why risk hitting the kids?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 26, 2018 - 03:52pm PT
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The taco gumshoe squad is on the case.
Should be solved in a few minutes.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 26, 2018 - 05:37pm PT
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We're workin' on it, Toker :-)
A key piece of the picture which we don't know: Where did the bullet penetrate the tent? It either went through the side, where the shooter can't see a target, or through the screen where the shooter, especially with a flashlight, could see his target. A good tactical flashlight would have blinded the unfortunate victim.
I can't imagine how those poor kids are processing this.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jun 26, 2018 - 06:52pm PT
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Shooter had an elevated position higher than the victim. Bullets are not required to enter the chest at 90 degree angle.
Not too hard, considering the victim was on the ground and the area is not dead flat.
Bullet could have entered from the side as well.
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monolith
climber
state of being
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Jun 26, 2018 - 07:26pm PT
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You automatically have a 5ft elevated advantage(unless yer Toker) over someone lying on the ground. Bullet could also have entered from the side as well.
I see Rurp deleted his post. Good call.
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A Essex
climber
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Jun 27, 2018 - 05:32am PT
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Couchmaster is typical Trump worshiper
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Jun 27, 2018 - 06:20am PT
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" Build the f*#king wall."
Walls don't stop, or even slow down pure evil.
End welfare for border hoppers, no squat and drop citizenship, and the kill the totally absurd 4 decade old failed "War on Drugs"... and we'd stop attracting the majority of those who don't want to contribute/work in a positive way.
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Bad Climber
Trad climber
The Lawless Border Regions
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Jun 27, 2018 - 08:59am PT
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@Somebody et al.--
Here's a great website with what seems to be some of the best, most balanced research on immigration that I have found:
https://www.justfacts.com/immigration.asp#crime
They don't pull punches and fully acknowledge ambiguity, but while legal immigrants are by and large very law abiding, alas, the same is not true for illegals. Here's the money quote from the crime section of the page--and everything is carefully cited:
NOTE: Due to limitations of government crime data, most of the facts below combine all non-citizens into a single category. This category is comprised of people who live in the U.S. legally and illegally. The legal non-citizens undergo background checks before residing in the U.S., while the illegal non-citizens do not.[727]
*** Based on U.S. Census data from 2011 to 2015, immigrants who remain in the U.S. and:
are U.S. citizens are 79% less likely than the general U.S. population to be incarcerated in adult correctional facilities.
are not U.S. citizens are 7% more likely than the general U.S. population to be incarcerated in adult correctional facilities.
are from Latin America are 5.1 times more likely to be incarcerated than immigrants from Europe and 6.3 times more likely than immigrants from Asia.[728] [729]**
So, yeah, a wall is probably not the way to go, but that don't mean all is hunky dory with illegal immigration. And let's not conflate legal and illegal under the wholesome banner of "immigrants." Clearly, there is a substantial difference.
BAd
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 27, 2018 - 09:25am PT
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So couch trolled a bunch of you.
Then of course Werner never met a conspiracy he never liked.
(Could monolith be one of those pussies that whines about reaching my bolts?)
It won't do the kids any good, but I hope they solve this.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 27, 2018 - 09:57am PT
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So, yeah, a wall is probably not the way to go, but that don't mean all is hunky dory with illegal immigration. And let's not conflate legal and illegal under the wholesome banner of "immigrants." Clearly, there is a substantial difference.
BAd
Thanks for providing an interesting counterpoint to the standard lib line of "illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crime that native Americans . . ."
I spent a few minutes Googling it as I've been a bit skeptical, being a follower of crime reports and living in a state with a pretty good amount of "immigrants" (I am not really sure that is the right word to describe young people who are here illegally for vague periods of time, but whatever.)
It seems to me that the "research" that shows illegal immigrants are less likely to commit crime is basically a joke and is based on things like asking prisoners whether they are in the US illegally, and, not surprisingly, not too many of them raise their hands! The other type of "research" is to the effect that immigration has been trending up over the past few decades, crime has been trending down, so voila, immigrants commit fewer crime! I suppose we could say things like watching Fox News causes the crime rate to go down too with logic like that.
I am not saying illegal "immigrants" commit more crime than natives, I don't really know, just that spending a few minutes trying to get a handle on this this shows that the "research" seems ideologically driven and basically a bunch of BS.
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Bargainhunter
climber
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Jun 27, 2018 - 12:39pm PT
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Folks: He was shot in the head.
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