From MP - JOSHUA TREE: THE BOLTING PRESSURE COOKER

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Russ Walling

Social climber

from Poofters Froth, Wyoming

Mar 13, 2018 - 01:20pm PT

Word on the street is some dude called Electric Dino flattened the hangers out there (Queen Mt. parking boulders?) I don't know the accused guy or the area, but, I agree that flattening is bad form and removal and patching is the preferred method if you have that particular burr under your saddle.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Mar 13, 2018 - 01:40pm PT

I agree that flattening is bad form and removal and patching is the preferred method if you have that particular burr under your saddle.

Yep. Especially since those are 5 piece powers, easy as piss to remove. Those don't really look like hammer strikes to me, maybe a rock in his hand?

On the op's subject, I really doubt anyone has died following one of my routes. Leading could be another story. I've never heard of a lethal fall on one, but maybe the occasional humiliation ;-)

On one occasion I did go back and add two bolts to a pitch of mine up at Courtright. The FA was a death defying stunt. A reasonably protected 5.12 crux was followed by a 5.11+X bit up at the top. The following year I walked up there with some friends to have a look at my handiwork. They were appalled. Luckily I had a reliable witness, as Herb Laeger challenged my veracity as to having actually done it. I rapped in two bolts at the top and led it. Now it's an R grade.

Does X-Con think that's still too risky? FWIW most climbers who would try this rig will end up hanging safely from the first bolt, and if they do get higher up there are no longer any ground-falls. Of course that's really in your belayer's hands.

guyman

Social climber

Moorpark, CA.

Mar 13, 2018 - 01:41pm PT

Retro bolting is lame.

Go find something on your own before you wreck someone’s climb forever.

Pounding hangers over is the most chicken sh#t thing ever.

But whatever!

Murf

climber

Mar 13, 2018 - 02:30pm PT

The pounded hanger is on a new route, not a retro. The first bolt on the adjacent route was also pounded flat. Looking a the hangers, it was done by a rock, and only to the first bolt.

Since it was Dino (who appears to be Highwayman or one of his associates) complaining earlier about these specific routes, it seems likely he's the smasher in question.

Having done both of the routes, they were high quality (3 of 5 stars IMO) with good length (such as it goes at Josh).

Highdesertman

Trad climber

jtree ca

Mar 13, 2018 - 03:02pm PT

I would hardly have posted a picture of something that like that if I had done it which I didn't. I also called one of the guys involved and assured him it was not my doing. I also thought a rock was involved at first but I think more so probably a hammer.

Russ Walling

Social climber

from Poofters Froth, Wyoming

Mar 13, 2018 - 03:07pm PT

Who would be out there with a hammer, and why? Weird.

I take it you are Electric Dyno? Any ideas on who might have done it? The natives are restless...

looking sketchy there...

Social climber

Lassitude 33

Mar 13, 2018 - 03:27pm PT

Back to the original post, I've largely come to the view that how the bolt got there is of far less importance than whether it should be there and whether it is in the right location.

Steeper and more difficult face climbing often precludes anything but rap bolting to adhere to these important objectives.

As to the advocacy for retro-bolting routes (making Climbing Safe For Everyone), I fully agree with most of the comments discrediting this proposition. And, a missing fixed pin is no different than a missing bolt, if you decide to "go for it" anyway, you assumed the risk if you pop.

IMO looks more like a rock was used than a hammer...

Whatever the case...

STOOPID move!!!..

Yup.

Highdesertman

Trad climber

jtree ca

Mar 13, 2018 - 03:27pm PT

My friend and I were as astounded as anybody when we saw them which is why I took pictures. There was no broken or crumbled rock any where around the bolts and I searched all around the base and beyond and found no tossed used rock anywhere. This is simply something I personally would never do and I hate to think that anybody would think that i'm the sort of person who would do that. We kept asking each other , who would do that?

Reilly

Mountain climber

The Other Monrovia- CA

Mar 13, 2018 - 03:58pm PT

Why do so many climbers come from inbreeding?

couchmaster

climber

Mar 13, 2018 - 06:28pm PT

Who didn't see this coming? Anyway, it wasn't me that chopped em. Hell, I can't even spell Rok and I'd have utilized a hammer anyway. Here's something of interest I need to climb, longest 5.9 in the world or some such: http://www.climbing.com/places/flyboys-washingtons-18-pitch-5-9-sport-route/

Drool boyz, drool.

Jh, any interest in putting up a classic 8-9 pitch free route around here? There really isn't anything like this in the vicinity and this one will take craploads of work. Might need a few bolts :-) unless you appreciate groundfall potential....

Highdesertman

Trad climber

jtree ca

Mar 13, 2018 - 06:39pm PT

Yes T Hocking that was me. A bit riled up I will admit. Don't miss the sincere part at the end and the fact my full name is there also. I'm also sincere now. That's why I called and said it wasent me. I know these guys we"ve climbed together in the past. I'm approaching 60 yrs old. I have never and i'm sure will never bend or chop a single bolt in my entire life.Lived here almost 15ys. I avoid this kind of thing allways. Not looking for any conflict in my life.I just happened to walk by only a week or less after it happened. Due to the angle of the climb I wouldn't be surprised if those two hangers would still be fine to use if they were bent back into the original position.

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2018 - 06:47pm PT

275 bolts, creating an 18-pitch route

It just doesn't get more sad or embarrassing. Yet another tumor as the cancer spreads in the North Cascades.

Jh, any interest in putting up a classic 8-9 pitch free route around here? There really isn't anything like this in the vicinity and this one will take craploads of work. Might need a few bolts :-) unless you appreciate groundfall potential....

Where did you have in mind?

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Mar 13, 2018 - 06:49pm PT

Five people that I know of have died on routes I put up. Not to bad when you consider that most of the Zion wall traffic is on them.

None died from running it out, but some of my routes put up on lead DO have runouts that I would generally like to see preserved.

MANY of my routes have been retrobolted and, of course, they always get blamed on me.

Content yourself that many young climbers will never be able to appreciate what pioneering involves.

Toker Villain

Big Wall climber

Toquerville, Utah

Mar 13, 2018 - 06:59pm PT

A stupid ranger in Valley of Fire used a hacksaw to cut off the eye of a drilled angle. Really scarred up the rock on both sides! From below you couldn't see there was no eye.

Didn't tell him that I could just tie it off for good pro.

Can the flattened hanger be threaded or is it too flat and flush?

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 13, 2018 - 07:03pm PT

Can the flattened hanger be threaded?

That would require someone owning a sling.

Gary

Social climber

Desolation Basin, Calif.

Mar 13, 2018 - 07:11pm PT

That would require someone owning a sling.

Murf

climber

Mar 13, 2018 - 08:05pm PT

Sorry Dino, I'm not buying it. The location and the people that know about the routes are very few. I can see the SBV episode now where Cube pontificates, "He didn't even have to balls to do it hisself".

Just 'cause your subbies did it and not you; can you say "Plausible Deniability"?