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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jun 27, 2017 - 03:23pm PT
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So if Single payer is so good, why do people from other countries, people in power, come over to the good old USA to get medical care?
Got a source for that bit of data? I'm interested.
Riddle me this, guyman, why did my old boss always go to TJ for medical and dental care?
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Vlad Pricker
Mountain climber
The cliffs of insanitty
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Jun 27, 2017 - 03:59pm PT
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A bit off topic, in fact, totally off topic, but I was just watching "My Favorite Wife" (1940) with Cary Grant and Irene Dunne. Haven't seen it for yonks.
So they are in the Ahwahnee Hotel. A porter is seen carrying up some golf bags. I do not recall a golf course in the Valley. Perhaps El Cap Meadows is Hole 18, a bit tricky, like free traversing the Great Roof.
Oh Stupid Me. Of course Big Trees Golf Course, and Wawona. Why didn't I think of that.
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StahlBro
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Jun 27, 2017 - 04:35pm PT
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A friend of mine just flew to Poland to repair his knee after a mtb crash. Saved him $20k, even after travel and hospital expenses. He is rehab'ing and everything is going great.
America is not that far ahead of the rest of developed world. It is just way more expensive.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 27, 2017 - 05:02pm PT
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 27, 2017 - 05:11pm PT
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So Guyman
you don't mind paying more than any other country in the world for your crappy Health care Insurance?
No real conservative would want to pay more, it's just throwing away your hard earned money to the banksters.
They get rich, you barely get by.
and what about those that can't afford any health care Insurance, what should they do?
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 27, 2017 - 05:17pm PT
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I do not.... they are a arm of the Democratic party.
prove it
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Jun 27, 2017 - 05:56pm PT
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I do not.... they are a arm of the Democratic party.
You better tell that to the millions of republicans that are members.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jun 27, 2017 - 06:16pm PT
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Get the federal government out of health care and we would ALL be better off.
Completely ass-backwards. The only way we'll ever stop being screwed up the ying-yang is to get for-profit insurance companies and states out of basic healthcare.
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 27, 2017 - 06:25pm PT
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to be discussed
Fake Trump Time Cover
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Yury
Mountain climber
T.O.
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Jun 27, 2017 - 08:20pm PT
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Myth #1: Canadians are flocking to the United States to get medical care.
It's definitely an exaggeration.
Most Canadians do not have money to do this.
However it's relatively common to drive/fly to US from Toronto for MRI, CT Scan, colonoscopy/gastroscopy etc. if you have some money.
I know two people: one person flew to Cleveland for MRI and another drove to Buffalo for gastroscopy.
My son has recently tried to convince me to go to Cleveland for a surgery.
According to my estimates the cost of surgery itself was reasonable, but I was concerned about unexpected cost increase in case of any complication.
I sometimes wonder whether I made a right decision not to go to Cleveland. :(
Again, best US hospitals are better than best Canadian hospitals.
As for a single payer idea, it would definitely allow you to save money by decreasing the quality of service. :(
I believe that the most sensible idea is to have single payer paying for basic services (e.g. 50% of overall health care expenses) and private or corporate insurance paying for extras like private rooms and most expensive services.
I understand that my idea would not be implemented because of lack of honest politicians willing to tell people the truth.
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Jun 27, 2017 - 08:37pm PT
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guyman wrote: So if Single payer is so good, why do people from other countries, people in power, come over to the good old USA to get medical care?
first of all, as others have pointed out, your assertion that this happens "All the time" is, relative to the number of people getting good health care in their own countries, absurd.
but, to be clear, there is no question, that if a person can pay, the US has some of the best healthcare the world over. the u.s. also has 320 million people [10x canuckistan, 5X UK, 5X France and 4X Germany] and spent 3.8 trillion dollars on health care [in 2013].
globally, the total amount spent on healthcare [in 2013] was 7.8 trillion dollars.
let that sink in.
ie. almost 50 cents of every healthcare dollar that is spent worldwide is spent in the u.s.
between the population of the u.s. and the amount that is spent, of course many many people are going to benefit from the incredible health services that the u.s. can provide to those that can pay.
flip side [just comparing the u.s. vs canada] is:
annual per capita health spending in 2013 u.s. bucks: $9086 vs $4569
life expectancy in 2015: 79.3 vs 82.2
under five child mortality rate: 6.5% vs 4.9%
ie. average americans spend twice as much per year to live on average 3 years shorter and have a 33% increased chance of dying before they are five, than their neighbors to the north.
i guess if you think, that when it comes to health, as long as a few are driving ferraris, then all those with nothing but sandals should just be happy for those with ferraris, then i guess that is one way to approach healthcare.
seems pretty strange to me, and i certainly would not be proud of spending twice as much every single year of my life to then die on average three years earlier.
but i guess whatever floats your boat.
Most of you guys don't "get it" at all.
Get the federal government out of health care and we would ALL be better off.
wise up.
you are like a flat earther, or like someone who believes that if only we could get rid of anti-monopoly laws the price of steel would go down.
you seriously think having to drive to the next hospital while cerebral fluid is dripping out your ears, so you can get the best value for a dollar is how this is going to work the best?
capitalism works fUcking ruthlessly and efficiently in many areas.
when it has a monopoly, or when a person has no choice but to use a particular service, at a particular time and place...
not so fUcking much.
this has been proved in as many cases as the earth has been proved not flat.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 27, 2017 - 08:41pm PT
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nahoo...So the earth is round..?
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Jun 27, 2017 - 08:50pm PT
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^^^^
give me fifteen minutes...
i can get you a wall o' text on that as well... ;)
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
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Jun 27, 2017 - 09:20pm PT
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waiting....
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jun 27, 2017 - 09:55pm PT
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Pear shaped?
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nah000
climber
now/here
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Jun 27, 2017 - 10:01pm PT
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an explication and history of ;)
by nah000
as far as i could find during my hasty web search the first emoticon appears to have come about in 1648...
in a poem by robert herrick the following lines appear:
Tumble me down, and I will sit
Upon my ruines, (smiling yet:)
while some argue that the :) is just a typesetter's mistake, it certainly does seem, given the context, that it was likely the result of intent...
while this leap in consciousness was apparently forgotten for a few hundred years, the next emoticon to arise from the collective was the also quickly forgotten —)
no, this wasn't a blinking cyclops, but was rather the 1967 documentation of ralph eppert's aunt ev's contribution to emoticon history. the tongue planted in cheek:
Many people write letters with strong expression in them, but my Aunt Ev is the only person I know who can write a facial expression. Aunt Ev’s expression is a symbol that looks like this: —) It represents her tongue stuck in her cheek. Here’s the way she used it in her last letter: “Your Cousin Vernie is a natural blonde again —) Will Wamsley is the new superintendent over at the factory. Marge Pinkleman says they tried to get her husband to take the job —) but he told them he couldn’t accept less that $12,000 a year —)
but the first bonafide and contemporary use of both the ubiquitous :-) and :-( was by scott fahlman in 1982 [at least if we are to use wikipedia as our source]...
in his now famous, to emoticon historians, post to the carnegie mellon computer science general board he wrote:
I propose that the following character sequence for joke markers:
:-)
Read it sideways. Actually, it is probably more economical to markthings that are NOT jokes, given current trends. For this, use
:-(
as internet interaction increased the need to express emotion quickly and efficiently resulted in the plethora of emoticon we now know today...
who first used ;) or its long hand version ;-) has been lost to history. but if early web board demographics tell us anything it was likely a 37 year old white male programmer looking to more efficiently communicate with the rest of the herd at 1:23 a.m. on march 17, 1984.
from the link above we see that its meaning is the "wink"...
a non-verbal form of communication that often suggests "shared hidden knowledge or intent".
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Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
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Jun 28, 2017 - 08:23am PT
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nahoo, great response to Guyman's post
and John M's post about Gov. regulations on health care was also very poignant.
Has anyone seen this
This Trump Lawyer's Business Dealings Are as Slimy as His Most Famous Client's
A new report reveals Jay Sekulow used a Christian charity to steer more than $60 million to his family.
http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/trump-lawyers-business-dealings-are-slimy-his-most-famous-clients
the Christian non-profit raises tens of millions of dollars a year, much of it in small amounts from Christians who receive direct appeals for money over the telephone or in the mail. The telemarketing contracts obtained by the Guardian show how fundraisers were instructed by Sekulow to deliver bleak warnings about topics including abortion, Sharia law and Barack Obama.
“It’s time to let the president know that his vision of America is obscured and represents a dangerous threat to the Judea-Christian [sic] values that have been the cornerstone of our republic,” one script from 2015 said.
A 2013 script warned listeners that Obama’s signature healthcare law, the Affordable Care Act, promised to give Planned Parenthood federal funding to open abortion referral clinics “in your child’s or grandchild’s middle school or high school”.
Trump's lawyer is a con man just like him!
He conned poor Christians with lies and fear to send him money that went directly into his family's pocket
Truly despicable
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 28, 2017 - 08:38am PT
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You should talk!
You stoopid people are just as stoopid.
You fall for every stoopid bullsh!t media.
Russian hacked the elections and Syria gassed it's own people.
Stoopid sh!t like Bin Laden caused 911, Sadam had Weapons of Mass destruction and on and on.
You Americans are stoopid ...
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Jun 28, 2017 - 08:50am PT
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you are like a flat earther, or like someone who believes that if only we could get rid of anti-monopoly laws the price of steel would go down.
you seriously think having to drive to the next hospital while cerebral fluid is dripping out your ears, so you can get the best value for a dollar is how this is going to work the best?
nah000 ..... thank you for the well thought out reply.
What if the Government doctor tells you "we don't cover cerebral fluid leaks." what then?
The bottom line for me is this: The FEDERAL government doesn't have the right to dictate to US (as in all of us) about just what "health care" we will have. It is not a duty assigned to it. We are not a Communist country, until the voters decide we want to become one. Democrats should go and put up Sanders, Warren etc for POTUS and run on a platform of single payer, tax the rich, support alt-energy and to be honest admit that 80% income tax rate on "the rich" is about the number... be honest and open about what you want.
I think only about 30% would support this.
Capitalism works- and it works in HC... when was the last time you checked out the cost of Lazar eye surgery, dental implants, breast augmentation? All are much better and much much cheaper then even 10 years ago.
This is because doctors and health care companies compete for your business.
I think this whole idea that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT must fulfill every thing that gets deemed "a right" by left leaning folks is unAmerican.
Next?
a chicken in every pot?
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