Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 08:55am PT
|
No, the chickens are all being rustled by trumpco and his ilk - you can't afford a chicken - nail soup for you.
|
|
Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 08:56am PT
|
So it's AMERICAN to not want our American Gov. to do anything for it's citizens?????????
That is the very definition of Anti-Patriotic or Un-American.
You've have been brainwashed my friend
by tax dodgers and idiots that don't have a clue how this Country works
The Governement is your Only Protection
the day you give up it's protections is the day you will lose it all
and the Republican party has one goal in mind, to strip away these protections so they can take it all and hand it over to the rich and powerful.
No one wants Communism, we want Capitalism and Socialism, it's called a Democratic Socialism,
All private businesses practice capitalism, the Gov. provides you with socialized military, clean air and water, police, fire, health care and protection from predatory corporations, and other evils
It's all very simple
to bad you just don't get it
|
|
Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 09:04am PT
|
I don't want the Gov. telling me what kind of health care I get
It's the Republicans that are telling us what we get
That's why we got ObamaCare, it was a Conservative plan, the only plan they could get through Congress
Now they want to screw us even more with TrumpCare, which will Cost a lot More!
I want Cheap Socialized Single Payer, why can't I have it???
Because the F-ing Republicans want me to spend more so the banksters can tell me what I get while they rake in millions in profits.
They are telling the entire Nation what it will get.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 09:10am PT
|
What if the Government doctor tells you "we don't cover cerebral fluid leaks." what then
Many Insurance plans have been imposing such limitations for years, or providing bare bones coverage with high deductibles.
Before the ACA, a person with this pre-existing condition might have been permanently precluded from ever obtaining affordable insurance. They were left to fend themselves, and go bankrupt paying for it. But hey...freedom, right?
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 09:25am PT
|
Dudes.... we just disagree.
and CF ... I guess I was brain washed when President Kennedy said, "ask knott what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"
Taking care of yourself, paying your own way and not looking to the big brother, provider of all things, government to hand you something is really a shitty way to live....
do you look to the FEDs to decide what sort of jeans you will like?
what sort of Car you will drive? Where you will work?
I think the answer from many of you would be a "YES"
|
|
Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 09:31am PT
|
ask knott what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country"
Kennedy said that about TAXES
Pay your Taxes, that's what you can do for your Country
So I guess you were brainwashed to think it meant something else
The brainwashing goes deep in most right wingers
what did you think it meant?
hate the Gov. that provides you with it's Benefits??
This is just plain stupid
do you look to the FEDs to decide what sort of jeans you will like?
what sort of Car you will drive? Where you will work?
I think the answer from many of you would be a "YES" The answer is NO
I do want the Gov. to regulate cars so they are safe and don't pollute
and jeans that won't kill me, and a job that doesn't make me a slave
|
|
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 09:38am PT
|
It seems to me that under the current system I pay more than citizens of other developed countries and have an insurance company tell me what doctors I may see and what health care I may receive. Aside from the the differences in philosophy (which I couldn't care less about) of having an insurance company tell me what health care I get and the government doing so, I don't see the advantage of the current system. It's wasteful to have a massive middle man sucking up most health care dollars.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 10:03am PT
|
Yap yap yap yap ... you people can't do sh!t.
You keep the stoopidest people in Office.
You're democrazy is useless as you can't do sh!t .....
|
|
Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 10:04am PT
|
Has a single Promise that Trump made during the Campaign come to fruition?
NO
They were all lies used to dupe his idiot supporters
Everything he said about Hillary was really the truth about Him
He is the Grand wizard of Projection.
He is a lying corrupt criminal under investigation by the FBI, in bed with Wall Street and the banksters
And doesn't give a rats ass about America or it's people
He has businesses in Russia and Saudi Arabia, after spouting that Hillary is making money off these evil Countries that have Human rights crimes
All his foundations and charitable Organizations funnel money directly into his pockets
Now we are the laughing stock of the world, they are laughing at us for electing such a goon
America was Greater w/o Trump
|
|
Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 10:21am PT
|
Guyman
If you want cheap Health Care Insurance
you can get a Special on Dr. F's "The Greatest HealthCare Insurance Plan Ever"
No Contracts to sign!
Just send me $400 a month, and send me all your Doctor bills
and I will file them in my special circular filing system
And your good to Go!
No evil Government regulations or intrusions, the best of all worlds, right?
|
|
nah000
climber
now/here
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 07:21pm PT
|
guyman: cheers, man.
you keep saying you don't want the feds to pay...
sorry this is so dickish, but i don't know how else to ask: you do understand the concept of insurance and how that works, yeah?
finally, for every cheap lasik surgery and breast reduction, there are ten thousand over priced drugs, epi pens, etc and etc... there are millions and likely billions of dollars being pissed down the tubes to marketers... and there are certainly billions of dollars being pissed into insurance to cover ridiculous malpractice suits [and this is of course not saying that all malpractice is frivolous].
saying that the individual is the best person to purchase "healthcare" when they will inevitably often have the gun of their own mortality directed at their face when they are trying to make that "purchase", will get you the system the u.s. has...
but you've already seemingly concluded that you think the ferrari for some, and sandals for others model, is the best one, as long as you personally don't have to worry about the possibility of the "government" stopping you from buying your ferrari...
while i still don't think you understand the concept of insurance, or that there are possible scenarios where a single payer federally mandated version could cover up to a certain amount while the feds at the same time used their muscle to reduce the vast amounts of profiteering [especially in the drug sector] while also taking advantage of its collective bargaining power... and that you could still have a system where people could pay through the nose for whatever they wanted above and beyond that...
you seem to think whatever system is put in place needs to be black or white.
it doesn't have to be, as there are ways of creating hybrid systems...
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Sands Motel , Las Vegas
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 07:47pm PT
|
Sad and tragic that the drooling class of America can't see the US health care system for what it is...A shell game and a scam.. Pay thru the nose ahead of time for medical services that you might need based upon corporate quarterly projections and then be outraged at the government when the insurance company denies you care and tells you to read the fine print... The definition of insanity is written all over this... " Kick me " signs with scotch tape , need to be mailed to any middle-class voter who supports the AHCA....
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 09:03pm PT
|
an argument for the industry is that it finances research.
The industry is the one making everyone sick, then the idiots in the industry takes the people's money to figure out what is making everyone sick and to find a cure all while making more poisons.
Around and around in circles these fools go chasing their tails misleading everyone only to make money.
Remember that we are talking about the INSURANCE industry. They don't finance ANYTHING. To their credit, they also make no poisons (yet)
|
|
10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 09:21pm PT
|
do you look to the FEDs to decide what sort of jeans you will like?
what sort of Car you will drive? Where you will work?
I think the answer from many of you would be a "YES"
What kind of logic is this?
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 09:22pm PT
|
So if Single payer is so good, why do people from other countries, people in power, come over to the good old USA to get medical care?
All the time.
Most of you guys don't "get it" at all.
Get the federal government out of health care and we would ALL be better off.
wise up.
You have NEVER provided care for such people, I have. You ask "why".
First, they do not really have to worry about security---American first tier hospitals are secure places, for the most part, and have experience protecting the identity of "guest" patients.
Second, what is excellent beyond compare, is medical education in the US. Graduates can get super-specialized training with absolute experts.
Also the US has access to the most modern of technology, paid for by the profits of hospitals.
I have worked with doctors who originated in many other countries, and I've found the ones who went through the process to become licensed in the US (which generally requires repeating several years of training they've already done elsewhere), were generally excellent.
The Gov't requires information to captured and dispensed, about quality and cost of healthcare. No one else does.
It is BECAUSE the US gov't is involved in our healthcare, that those of power want care here.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 09:37pm PT
|
What if the Government doctor tells you "we don't cover cerebral fluid leaks." what then?
First, it is not true, so second opinion.
Second, it is not true, so that doctor, like all doctors know, that you have set yourself up for a lawsuit for anything bad that happens to that patient.
Third, it is not true, and deviates from the Standard of Care, by which all doctors are judged. This action could result in loss of medical license.
Finally, "the Government doctor" that you are stating is NOT what anyone is proposing. What is being discussed is the payment mechanism ONLY. For example, virtually every adult-treating doctor in America receives payment from Medicare.
Are they "Gov't doctors"? they are the ones you go to now.
|
|
Larry Nelson
Social climber
|
|
|
Jun 28, 2017 - 10:37pm PT
|
Can't say I much care for these poli-threads, but I do peak in and couldn't let this one go uncontested ;-)
Craig Fry posted in reply to a Kennedy quote:
Kennedy said that about TAXES
Pay your Taxes, that's what you can do for your Country
So I guess you were brainwashed to think it meant something else
The brainwashing goes deep in most right wingers
what did you think it meant? I looked at the address from the JFK library site. https://www.jfklibrary.org/Research/Research-Aids/Ready-Reference/JFK-Quotations/Inaugural-Address.aspx
The inaugural speech was mostly centered on foreign policy and peace.
Remember, JFK was the one who started the Peace Corps. This was a time when school children were practicing ducking under desks, and I remember San Diego's air raid sirens going off at noon every Monday.
As far as taxes; In supporting his call for reducing taxes to stimulate the economy, Kennedy stated that a rising tide lifts all boats.
Edit: The tax quote was not in the inaugural address.
Cheers
|
|
Craig Fry
Trad climber
So Cal.
|
|
|
Jun 29, 2017 - 08:06am PT
|
You may be correct on those points.
I did hear someone speak at length about the Tax implications of the speech
So I thought it was better well known
Of course you shouldn't "Ask not what your country can do for you"
We all want to be independent and not have to rely on handouts,
but it's there if we need it,
and we all will have to rely on it for it's Protections that it provides.
But here is where most people are clueless "but what you can do for your country"?
what does that mean?
It sure doesn't mean hating it and fighting against it, or working on bankrupting it.
The most patriotic thing possible is Paying Your Fair Share of taxes, so it can do it's work. The Gov. doesn't need anything more from You as a Citizen, other than to not cause problems that raise costs.
You vote for the Gov. you want, you pay your taxes, and you work to make this a better world for all.
Kennedy's tax cut from 90% to 75% on the top tax rate was actually a Tax Increase revenue wise, because he eliminated all the loopholes that the rich were using to avoid paying any taxes.
It was a big problem back then, the rich were doing everything possible to avoid paying taxes because the rate was so high, so the point was to bring it down to a more reasonable rate, close loopholes, and increase enforcement, which increased tax revenue.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Jun 29, 2017 - 10:36am PT
|
The most patriotic thing possible is Paying Your Fair Share of taxes, so it can do it's work. The Gov. doesn't need anything more from You as a Citizen, other than to not cause problems that raise costs.
And vote! If you don't vote, then someone else is selecting the gov't that will rule YOU.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
“insurance for everybody"
Let us know!