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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Dec 29, 2016 - 02:42pm PT
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Remember BLM stands for Bureau of Logging and Mining.
Additional protection is always welcome
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mike m
Trad climber
black hills
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Dec 29, 2016 - 02:51pm PT
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I think by and large protection from mining and logging often times comes with protection from campers camping and climbers climbing, boaters boating, fees, gates and fences if that were not the case then I am all for it. Protect away but can we please keep a few places where you can just pull up and throw out the camping pad.
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Tom Patterson
Trad climber
Seattle
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Dec 29, 2016 - 03:01pm PT
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Sore loser
pud - For most of us (I can't speak for everyone here), we aren't "sore losers" at all. I think just about any of us who voted for Clinton or someone else did so because we recognize the dangers of having a 70-year old child in a suit as President of the U.S.--and an immature, vindictive child, at that.
I might have been "disappointed" if, say, a Romney type candidate had won, but would've said, "Oh well...guess I'll try to make the best of what I don't believe is an ideal outcome for me, the country, and the rest of the world."
Trump is a completely different animal, and not in a good way at all. If you read the DSM V description of a person with Narcissistic Personality Disorder, it is all but impossible not to think of Trump as the poster child for this disorder.
The problem with that is that people like this in positions of power are incredibly dangerous.
As it relates to this thread, his childish, capricious, self-absorbed, vindictive, money-obsessed way of thinking will have profoundly negative effects on the lands that we all love.
Again...we aren't "sore losers." We are people who tried to warn you about what lies ahead with a Trump in the White House.
Edit: I'll just add Mayo Clinic's description of Narcissistic Personality Disorder here:
 DSM-5 criteria for narcissistic personality disorder include these features:
Having an exaggerated sense of self-importance
Expecting to be recognized as superior even without achievements that warrant it
Exaggerating your achievements and talents
Being preoccupied with fantasies about success, power, brilliance, beauty or the perfect mate
Believing that you are superior and can only be understood by or associate with equally special people
Requiring constant admiration
Having a sense of entitlement
Expecting special favors and unquestioning compliance with your expectations
Taking advantage of others to get what you want
Having an inability or unwillingness to recognize the needs and feelings of others
Being envious of others and believing others envy you
Behaving in an arrogant or haughty manner
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Mike Friedrichs
Sport climber
City of Salt
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 29, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
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Again I ask -- Do you think we as a people, or our government owes anything to the Native American tribes in this region? Can you at least answer this question?
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Tom Patterson
Trad climber
Seattle
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Dec 29, 2016 - 03:07pm PT
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Mike: ABSOLUTELY, WE DO!!!
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okie
Trad climber
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Dec 29, 2016 - 03:36pm PT
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All this land because the natives asked? And Leonard still awaits a pardon. Seems like a parting shot at a red state, overreaching in its scope.
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Oldfattradguy2
Trad climber
Here and there
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Dec 29, 2016 - 03:40pm PT
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Too bad Mike is now a sport climber and will not be enjoying the new monument.......
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 29, 2016 - 03:43pm PT
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Again I ask -- Do you think we as a people, or our government owes anything to the Native American tribes in this region?
Respect, but nothing else. The concept of "hallowed burial grounds" seems as silly with everyone else, as it does with them.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 29, 2016 - 04:21pm PT
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Respect, but nothing else. The concept of "hallowed burial grounds" seems as silly with everyone else, as it does with them.
Sure, ignore several hundred years of one treaty broken after another, massive reductions of reservation acreage, pillaging of government-managed indian accounts and timber / mineral / gas / oil rights on scales that boggle the imagination.
The last four secretaries of the interior alone we're held in contempt of court in a single court case that was eventually settled for a fraction of a cent on the dollar. My wife's and every other tribe have had to grow up about seven generations of increasingly sophisticated lawyers just to get those settlements. If court cases settled since just 2000 were settled for dimes on the dollar instead of fractions of a cent the bill would have been a trillion dollars.
And that's just financial malfeasance and fraud - 'nothing' indeed. If we owned a fraction of our responsibility and had any self-respect at all around the issue we'd at least have to acknowledge not only several hundred years of genocide, but the continuous, non-stop rape of what meager resources were allotted to tribes in broken treaties.
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Tom Patterson
Trad climber
Seattle
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Dec 29, 2016 - 04:39pm PT
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^^^ Yep.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 29, 2016 - 06:20pm PT
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Email sent!
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Dec 29, 2016 - 06:28pm PT
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Respect, but nothing else. The concept of "hallowed burial grounds" seems as silly with everyone else, as it does with them.
Ken, claims to be a liberal, but I See hypocrisy in this statement.
So Ken, the only thing we owe blacks is respect?
How about the Japanese internees?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Dec 29, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
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You want to see blocked access try to recreate in a mining lease or timber harvest. I'll take my chances with some BLM bs over some Canadian uranium mining conglomerate's fences and security guards!
Also, saying the concept of sacred burial grounds is silly is profoundly ignorant.
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Dec 29, 2016 - 06:46pm PT
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Way to go last president of America before the grand kleptocracy of disfunction and abuse.
Spoken like a true victim.
Don't worry though, Trump will reverse these egotistical land grabs or as we say at work, "They'll fix it in post".
Elected San Juan County leaders have been nearly unanimous in their opposition to a monument, arguing it would stymie public access and disrupt traditional uses. Congressman Rob Bishop, R-Utah, and many other state leaders claimed a monument "unilaterally" established through executive decree — under the 1906 Antiquities Act — would disenfranchise local sentiment and perpetuate conflict over use of public lands.
Bishop, chairman of the House Natural Resources Committee, has already met president-elect Donald Trump's transition team, asking him to revoke large-scale monuments that Obama designated even though local leaders opposed them.
Bishop and Rep. Jason Chaffetz have sponsored legislation attempting to preserve critical lands in the Bears Ears area without designating the area as a national monument.
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atchafalaya
Boulder climber
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Dec 29, 2016 - 07:00pm PT
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Never thought I would see climbers whining about a president protecting public lands.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 29, 2016 - 07:18pm PT
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pendulum has swung too far to conservation
Not at all, the pendulum has been swung hard to the rape and pillage side of things for well over a century, time to protect these lands while they're still semi-intact.
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Matt's
climber
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Dec 29, 2016 - 07:41pm PT
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If the US locks the lands shut to mining, ranching, drilling; we will still need those resources to exist as a modern society. Should we just import that stuff and let other countries rape their lands so we can enjoy ours?
I don't quite get how you see subsidized cattle-grazing on federal land as a requirement for modern society...
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Dec 29, 2016 - 07:50pm PT
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If the US locks the lands shut to mining, ranching, drilling; we will still need those resources to exist as a modern society.
There are still vast tracts of unprotected resources available - what the whining is really about is all the red staters, mining companies, ranchers and others whining about losing what amounts to huge government subsidies. Hate that damned government except when it's their government subsidies.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Dec 29, 2016 - 08:26pm PT
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As mentioned up-thread, I’m not a fan of new National Monuments, since the freedoms I enjoyed on Forest Service or BLM lands are usually limited. Roadside car camping in unmarked places & spontaneous day hikes do seem to get strictly limited or regulated. And, the freedom to collect minerals & small fossils is illegal in National Monuments.
However, I do approve & appreciate the ban on artifact looting, road-building, grazing, drilling, & mining.
Of course, this question might occur to some here? Why does so much un-regulated wilderness still survive in BLM & Forest Service lands in the western U.S?
The simple answer is: from the first western prospectors in the 1850’s to when the BLM & Forest Service finally started restricting folks or corporations from claiming any lands they thought might yield minerals, oil, or a livable ranch, or farm, those still un-developed lands were proved to have no economic value.
Our prized wilderness had no economic value by early 20th Century standards. There were no resources worth building a road to & certainly no reason to live there.
It’s still worthless for economic development.
Most of Cedar Mesa, which is the south-central large part of the Bear’s Ears National Monument was systematically drilled for oil & natural gas in the 1960’s & prospected for minerals dating back to the 1880’s. Nobody found anything of worth. It provides marginal grazing for skinny Mormon cows, & some “dry-farmers” tried clearing land & planting wheat, but gave up.
It’s fuking worthless, except for recreation, and anthropologists.
It does have some fine views.
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