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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Nov 23, 2016 - 07:52am PT
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Why wouldn't they have kids? The Government incentivizes having kids in a bunch of ways. And does nothing to discourage having kids.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Nov 23, 2016 - 08:12am PT
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We would have negative growth if we stopped having kids. Illegal immigration is the only thing that keeps the population going in a positive direction. Negative growth is a bad thing. We need young people to work crappy jobs and pay into Social Security.
Living sustainably should be the goal. We are in incredibly wasteful society.
http://focus.ie.edu/spains-shrinking-population
The consequences of a population that is ageing as it shrinks are well known. Less economic growth, greater difficulties in gathering tax, increased demand for public services, serious difficulties in sustaining the future of the pension systems without deep reforms, fewer facilities for innovation, greater social resistance to change, etc.
Be careful about what you wish for
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Nov 23, 2016 - 08:18am PT
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Stop using petroleum products.
I am not justifying the use of petroleum products, but until you educate the masses, and until you have an economy that is solely dependent on alternative energy, it ain't going to happen.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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Nov 23, 2016 - 08:22am PT
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stop reproducing
THIS, really IS the crux of the biscuit as some would put it. We knew this in the 70's.
In the news for Standing Rock, relatively peaceful water protectors showered with water cannon, rubber bullets to the body and head, and flash grenades (one woman essentially lost her arm from one blast). Come on Obama, don't just "let it play out".
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 23, 2016 - 10:54am PT
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Once again I want to thank everyone for their participation in this conversation. It has given me much to think about as I plan how to participate more actively in some of these issues.
I have come to the (sad for me) realization that I most likely will not be able to replace my aging van with another one unless it becomes my primary residence.
Yesterday on FB a deputy sheriff spoke representing law enforcement and the Sheriff of the county. I am old enough now to know what pure rhetoric sounds like. It was rather pathetic having him state they were just upholding the "Rule of Law". And who is interpreting this rule of law, one asks?
I wonder if Native American Tribes across the United States have a coalition to represent and aide each other? Anyone know?
Feralfae, love all your comments up line on this thread. Great ideas not only from you but many. Again, thanks everyone. Lynne
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 23, 2016 - 11:34am PT
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feralfae, when you make the clear choice to use the "wasicu", a derogatory term roughly equivalent to ni**er, you lost me.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Nov 23, 2016 - 11:41am PT
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stop reproducing
I laugh at my libtard friends who drive Priuses but keep having kids!
Jon's response to this is profound.
Also, we HAVE stopped reproducing, to a degree. Our fertility rate is now below replacement level, and our population only grows due to immigration.
US fertility rate falls to lowest on record
http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/11/health/us-lowest-fertility-rate/
I find it quite troubling that this is written about, nowhere. We have a society that is based upon constant growth, and everything is planned obsolescence. Nothing that we build today has a prayer of lasting much beyond 100 years. Compare that with the building done by Rome--buildings and aqueducts that last many many centuries.
That's progress?
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Nov 23, 2016 - 11:59am PT
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I wonder if Native American Tribes across the United States have a coalition to represent and aide each other? Anyone know?
There are three hundred tribes that have come together to support the Standing Rock Lakota.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Nov 23, 2016 - 01:25pm PT
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stop reproducing
^^^
THIS, really IS the crux of the biscuit as some would put it. We knew this in the 70's.
Aldous Huxley knew this in the 1931, and reiterated how much faster it was happening than he would have conceived, as part of Brave New World Revisited which was published in 1958.
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feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
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Nov 23, 2016 - 02:13pm PT
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Lynne,
Thank you for bringing up this issue. And for your concern.
You are always welcome in my home in Montana on your travels. You have a very good heart.
I look out at the Continental Divide from my solar home, and my Medicine Wheel is just out my door to the east. I built it myself, and many people, including me, use it for prayers. It is about 30' across of stacked iron slate slabs.
Today the chaps came to do an energy audit, after all my preaching here about energy savings, I am proud to say that my home scored 96 out of 100, and so I am happy. Most days, the sun does most of the heating, although I do have wood heat as well as back-up heat which gets turned on maybe five days each year.
And there is a lovely guest room. But you might be asked to stoke the wood fire occasionally. :)
Happy Thanksgiving to everyone!
ff
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Nov 26, 2016 - 11:11am PT
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Eco terrorists shouldn't play with matches.
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10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
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Nov 29, 2016 - 06:17pm PT
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feralfae, when you make the clear choice to use the "wasicu", a derogatory term roughly equivalent to ni**er, you lost me.
Nothing wrong with the term Wasichu, Ken it's not like calling someone a redskin, or injun.
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GuapoVino
climber
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Nov 30, 2016 - 07:48am PT
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The land at the site of the halted river crossing is, as I understand it, what's called unceded treaty land. It's land that was given to them in 1851 in the Laramie Treaty but is land that was taken away without their agreement. This started in 1868 and continued into the 1960's (definitely as late as 1944).
One of the reasons that the Corps of Engineers has temporarily ordered ETP to cease work at the location of the river crossing is because they came to the realization that not all provisions under the National Historic Preservation Act were met. There was an archeological study done but evidently it wasn't thorough enough to meet the requirements of the Act and didn't involve members of the tribe. The EPA has also come out against approval because the project didn't fully meet all the requirements of the Clean Water Act.
ETP has continually moved forward with progress on the pipeline without all of the permits and approvals in place and even when ordered to stop and simply elect to pay the fines. The DOJ and Dept of the Interior has recently stepped in to halt progress when ETP seemed to be ignoring the Corps of Engineers. ETP is also sueing, claiming that they don't need permission to cross the land in question (maybe all federal land??).
Something else that's interesting is that ETP (and Rick Perry, who is a board member) lobbied heavily and were instrumental in getting the law changed to all the oil to be exported.
The governor of North Dakota evidently has a financial interest in the project which creates a conflict of interest with his decision to mobilize the state national guard to the area and approve the heavy handed techniques used by the police there. Some correspondence was recently leaked that suggested that ETP is going to be footing the bill for the cost of the law enforcement involvement there. There have been several police departments and sheriffs departments who have brought their deputies home because with they don't agree with the way it's being handled or because the public outcry from their constituents back home demanded it.
The CoE initially gave the protestors until Dec 5th to evacuate the main camp, but then rescinded it. After that the governor made a proclamation giving them until Dec 5th to vacate. Interestingly, Dec 5th is George Custet's birthday.
There are over 2000 veterans headed to the site to challenge the police and the pipeline and they're saying they're not going go along with the eviction notice by the governor. They're scheduled to be there by Dec 4th and stay until Dec 7th. The organizers cut this mobilization off at 2000 participants but more are going to show up. They're already signing people up for a second mobilization and are even talking about doing it indefinitely. It could get interesting.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Nov 30, 2016 - 08:25am PT
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Wonder if the Bundy boys will show.....
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GuapoVino
climber
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Nov 30, 2016 - 08:29am PT
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I had heard there were some of the more militant groups that expressed an interest but the offer was declined because they're trying to keep it as peaceful as possible and have a strict policy of no firearms, drugs or alcohol.
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ChristopherABrown
Social climber
Santa Barbara California
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Dec 25, 2016 - 09:43am PT
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Basically government is aiding and abetting the destruction of unalienable rights. Naturally pure water is such a right and the 9th amendment says we can make it so.
However, formally we have to organize to do this. But, there is a legal process we can use. But, the PURPOSE of free speech is abridged so we cannot inform one another and unify to do so.
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ChristopherABrown
Social climber
Santa Barbara California
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Dec 25, 2016 - 10:08am PT
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CHAZ wrote:
"Nov 21, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
There're petroleum pipelines everywhere in the U.S. There's one in San Timeteo Canyon where I like to stop and kick back on bike rides. It follows, more or less, the route of the second transcontinental railroad, moving refined fuel from L.A. to points east.
Of all the thousands and thousands of miles of petroleum pipelines in this country, what makes the Standing Rock one more objectionable than all those that came before it?
Is this pipeline that much more dangerous than any of the others? If so, what makes it more dangerous?
Or is this protest the Indigenous Peoples equivalent to Bundy Bird Sanctuary occupation? "
The DAPL is under laws of GATT and NAFTA and US or state laws mean nothing, so does not benefit any Americans except for owners and stockholders in the corporation. Being under NAFTA and GATT it is outside of US law. Having that status within US territory makes GATT and NAFTA treason.
The DAPL security is essentially a foreign military in the US enforcing corporate profits at the cost of American environment.
The Bundys failed in Nevada to understand how the BLM was a tool of the infiltration of the federal government, and examine the logical, lawful strategy for enforcing the constitution. Accordingly they failed badly causing the murder of Lavoy Finicum, RIP warrior.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Dec 25, 2016 - 06:44pm PT
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Chris, this is a tough audience.
Simply making assertions, without any links to back up your OPINION, will not convince anyone of anything.
Exaggerating (such as asserting that laws are meaningless in the face of international treaties), just takes your credibility down......as does not answering the questions that you cite in your post, but don't answer.
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