Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 21, 2016 - 05:12pm PT
|
Do we have a thread here already about Standing Rock? If so I will get rid of this one. If not...what do you all know about this? It sounds like Corporations/Money against the real people.
I am wondering if I should go and participate and I am also wondering why our President who has nothing to lose at this point does not get this settled.
It reminds me of times in our history when "we" (me) should have gotten involved (Martin Luther King march) but I had babies....now I don't.
|
|
10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2016 - 05:26pm PT
|
It's disgusting. Obama has put a temporary stop to the pipeline, but it's guaranteed to go thru once trump is in office.
|
|
c wilmot
climber
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2016 - 05:28pm PT
|
It will go by rail if no pipeline. That's really no better. We all use oil. Heck- where would climbing be without oil?
|
|
skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2016 - 05:31pm PT
|
I think the big issue is that the pipeline company's contract's with backers was signed 2 years ago or so and is up at the end of December. As such, the intensity of the level of force used against the protesters )who have been dominantly peaceful) has ramped up over the last 2 months. I'd say your gut feeling is pretty much right on. And guess who else is invested; Donald.
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2016 - 05:40pm PT
|
Ok, so let's play with the players now involved. Obama, like I said, has nada, absolutely nada to lose, how do we put the pressure on him....if possible. I'm taking it a step at a time. Hope we can resolve this Before the President Elect gets in office.
Anyone here on Super Topo on top of this? I don't want to let another group down....I am seriously thinking of going to support this cause.
|
|
David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2016 - 05:44pm PT
|
lynne you should ask yourself what help could you offer that makes the most difference-for me, i decided that there are plenty of people there but not enough food clothing or water, so i sent some money to a tribal group.
|
|
10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2016 - 05:45pm PT
|
This just didn't happen. It's been going on for four months.
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2016 - 05:55pm PT
|
0b4me, I was aware of what was happening, probably like most of us. I thought it would get resolved. To be honest I really did not think the United States of America would let something like this happen again. What is up with us....? on both sides. I asked myself, "Lynne, you still sit in your comfort zone while people are on the line for what they believe." I wonder about all of us "observers". Writing a check is not a problem, but is it enough?
|
|
10b4me
Mountain climber
Retired
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2016 - 06:01pm PT
|
I really did not think the United States of America would let something like this happen again. What is up with us....?
It's all about greed.
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2016 - 06:04pm PT
|
I know, and I think we all know.....about greed. Question: does anyone have a contact that I could get in touch with that is actually there?
|
|
pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2016 - 06:23pm PT
|
Look in any craigslist anywhere.
Under 'rideshare' there are plenty of professional and amatuer protesters looking for a ride there.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2016 - 06:27pm PT
|
There're petroleum pipelines everywhere in the U.S. There's one in San Timeteo Canyon where I like to stop and kick back on bike rides. It follows, more or less, the route of the second transcontinental railroad, moving refined fuel from L.A. to points east.
Of all the thousands and thousands of miles of petroleum pipelines in this country, what makes the Standing Rock one more objectionable than all those that came before it?
Is this pipeline that much more dangerous than any of the others? If so, what makes it more dangerous?
Or is this protest the Indigenous Peoples equivalent to Bundy Bird Sanctuary occupation?
|
|
skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2016 - 06:43pm PT
|
The pipeline crosses the main water source for the Stand Rock Res just upstream from their intake valves. The pipeline was originally slated to cross near Bismark, but was abandoned for basically the same reason; potential impacts to Bismark's drinking water. The pipeline also has been placed through what are considered sacred burial grounds, lands that were originally Standing Rock lands via the 1851 treaty.
|
|
Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2016 - 06:47pm PT
|
Don't all petroleum pipelines run near someone's drinking water? The one in San Timeteo Canyon runs for miles right on top of the water source for 100,000 people.
Go back to the 1800s, and San Timeteo Canyon was part of a Spanish land grant. I'm sure their descendants would like to have it back.
I'm just not clear I guess on what makes the Standing Rock one worse than all the others.
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2016 - 06:50pm PT
|
Appreciating the information everyone.
|
|
skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
|
|
|
Nov 21, 2016 - 06:51pm PT
|
I think the point is Chaz, the Standing Rock tribe did not want it through what they consider their area. Bismark would have been fine with them.
|
|
amyjo
Trad climber
|
|
|
Nov 22, 2016 - 12:25am PT
|
More like, The whole business of pipelines and contamination has to be rethought. Seeing as there's so much evidence that they're bound to leak sooner or later. Kind of like nuclear power. Oops.
|
|
feralfae
Boulder climber
in the midst of a metaphysical mystery
|
|
|
Nov 22, 2016 - 05:41am PT
|
Standing Rock is not US land: it is treaty land under recognized ownership by the People of Standing Rock. The corps of engineers has no right to grant any use or encroachment of or on these lands.
No more than the government or any corporation has the right to lay a pipeline across your back yard, there is no one who has the right to lay a pipeline across the lands of a separate and deeded nation. The history of Standing Rock, Cheyenne River, and most treaty deeded reservation lands has been one of successive waves of encroachment, theft of lands, and destruction of the culture and way of life of the people who own and live on that land. Many traditional People are rising up and refusing to allow access (read: degradation) of their lands and their local environment to the corporations.
The pipeline can be diverted to somewhere else if it must be built. As an aside, it has long been proposed to run pipelines along major interstate right of ways, to create super-conduits for transport of all types, including oil, water, electricity, and goods and people. The access for maintenance would be easier and more economical as well. These are major developed and existing corridors. Yes, it might reduce the profits (of those already making millions) to comply with these corridor designs, diverting them away from privately-held lands, but it might also save some natural land areas, preserving plants and animals and soil for the use of future generations.
This is not a problem limited to the land owners of Standing Rock: it is a problem based on greed and power that encircles the globe. Everywhere, traditional people are losing their land because of greed and the encroachment of corporate interests. Environmental, cultural, human, and tribal considerations are entirely ignored, ridiculed, or outlawed by corporately-controlled governments officials. Racism is a major component of silencing the protests of those who are being robbed, usually through ridicule, sound-bites dismissal, and inappropriate portrayal through mainstream propaganda media.
Using any excuse of expediency or economy to violate contracts does not meet the test of proper peaceful negotiation and informed consent. The tribal voices have been routinely ignored, while government agents and corporations have, in a most cavalier manner, usurped the rights and lands of traditional people.
Lynne, here is one link for ways to support. http://www.papermag.com/how-to-support-nodapl-protestors-2072880726.html I am not endorsing or recommending any of these linked sites, just providing them for information purposes. If you are interested in getting more involved in these issues, you might want to check out Survival International.
If you want to focus on Standing Rock alone, it might help if you do a little research on the history of Standing Rock, You will note that the original treaty has been systematically violated and redefined through the use of continual types of warfare—military, economic, medical, and indoctrination—to force concessions from the people who live on and with those lands. If you traumatize any people enough, they will eventually collapse, unless enough support arrives to help them withstand the onslaught.
Good for you for being concerned and wanting to help. If more people had your attitude, groups such as Survival International would have a lot more victories. Brava!
Peace to you,
feralfae
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!