Climate Change: Why aren't more people concerned about it?

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
Messages 1841 - 1860 of total 1964 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 4, 2017 - 06:51am PT
https://thetyee.ca/Culture/2017/10/04/Megafires-Will-Shape-Future/
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 4, 2017 - 06:57am PT

Carbon Dioxide and Climate

An article from our July 1959 issue examined climate change: "A current theory postulates that carbon dioxide regulates the temperature of the earth. This raises an interesting question: How do Man's activities influence the climate of the future?"

Even the carbon dioxide theory is not new; the basic idea was first precisely stated in 1861 by the noted British physicist John Tyndall. He attributed climatic temperature-changes to variations in the amount of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. According to the theory, carbon dioxide controls temperature because the carbon dioxide molecules in the air absorb infrared radiation. The carbon dioxide and other gases in the atmosphere are virtually transparent to the visible radiation that delivers the sun's energy to the earth. But the earth in turn reradiates much of the energy in the invisible infrared region of the spectrum. This radiation is most intense at wavelengths very close to the principal absorption band (13 to 17 microns) of the carbon dioxide spectrum. When the carbon dioxide concentration is sufficiently high, even its weaker absorption bands become effective, and a greater amount of infrared radiation is absorbed [see chart on page 42]. Because the carbon dioxide blanket prevents its escape into space, the trapped radiation warms up the atmosphere.

A familiar instance of this "greenhouse" effect is the heating-up of a closed automobile when it stands for a while in the summer sun. Like the atmosphere, the car's windows are transparent to the sun's visible radiation, which warms the upholstery and metal inside the car; these materials in turn re-emit some of their heat as infrared radiation. Glass, like carbon dioxide, absorbs some of this radiation and thus traps the heat, and the temperature inside the car rises.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/carbon-dioxide-and-climate/
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 4, 2017 - 07:05am PT
Fine work, Hartouni.

Man, boy howdy! I have to thank Ed for his contributions and for the micro-bits of knowledge I have gained on the subject of climate/physics. I have spent a few hours(or days) following his links and doing my own research to educate myself on the subject. His ability to articulate what can be hard to understand in the lit, is much appreciated.

Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 4, 2017 - 07:19am PT
Lessons From the Beast

Last summer the government of Alberta reluctantly released the findings of an inquiry into the Horse River wildfire in Fort McMurray.

More than 2,000 firefighters, 77 helicopters, nine air tanker groups and nearly 300 pieces of heavy machinery eventually battled the “Beast,” a blaze that would become Canada’s costliest natural disaster.

The highly critical report highlighted a number of surprising issues that were largely ignored or under-reported by the media.

For starters, climate change means more wildfires are starting as early as May. But Alberta’s firefighting system (as in much of the Prairies and the North) is still not designed for an early spring startup.

There was, for example, no water bomber stationed in Fort McMurray, the nation’s oil capital, in early May.

Fighting a fire requires a unified command centre, but in Fort McMurray the regional municipality, oilsands companies and Alberta’s Agriculture and Forestry Ministry didn’t function “in a unified way for several days or at all for the duration of the wildfire,” the report found.

At one point the municipality and oil companies hired aircraft to gather fire intelligence when the government was doing the same thing.

Provincial weather forecasts, which greatly underestimated the severity of the conditions at the time, also need “to be more informative and definitive,” the report recommended.

It also highlighted the unique challenges highly industrialized landscapes pose for battling wildfires.

A major bitumen pipeline corridor, for example, hindered the movement of heavy equipment for wildfire suppression at the beginning of the blaze. Shutting down bitumen facilities — if not done properly — can render them useless and have national economic consequences.

A team of trained and experienced fire experts from Slave Lake, who battled a 2001 fire there that consumed 500 houses, were uniquely prepared to deal with the situation in Fort McMurray. But they were never integrated into the fight and left early, the report found.

The report concluded that preparation for wildfires must become a major political effort and that “the threat of wildfires in Alberta only stands to grow, driven in part by a changing climate and increasingly mature forest complexes.”

https://thetyee.ca/Culture/2017/10/04/Megafires-Will-Shape-Future/


We can expect this trend to continue, as climate change is expected to contribute to increased incidence of wildfire. Canadian studies of the effects of climate change on wildfire activity in Canada forecast greater climatic variability, more severe weather events, longer fire seasons, increases in both lightning-caused and human-caused wildfire occurrence, greater areas burned and larger, more intense wildfires. These studies also state that the effects of climate change and the associated risks from wildfire impacts will become even more apparent in the northern boreal forests of western Canada
https://www.alberta.ca/assets/documents/Wildfire-MNP-Report.pdf
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 4, 2017 - 05:11pm PT
This reference says CO2 that absorbs IR radiation is unlikely to re-emit it

• Excited molecular states have very long lifetimes compared to
excited electron states – from milliseconds to tenths of seconds.

• Mean time between collisions with another molecule is roughly
0.1 microseconds – so, many collisions and efficient energy transfer.

http://www-users.math.umn.edu/~mcgehee/Seminars/ClimateChange/presentations/2013-1Spring/20130212ThermalIRandCarbonDioxideintheAtmosphere.pdf

The mean time between collisions is 0.2 x 10-9 s. Thus an average molecule undergoes 5 collisions every nanosecond.
http://www.ems.psu.edu/~bannon/moledyn.html
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 9, 2017 - 09:58pm PT
Gov. Inslee: Effects of climate change are creating 'slow-motion disaster movie'

The ongoing natural disasters that are ravaging both the western and gulf coasts of the United States should serve as a dire warning to the world about the consequences of climate change, especially with a "climate denier in the White House," according to Washington Gov. Jay Inslee.


http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/11/politics/jay-inslee-axe-files-axelrod/index.html
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 10, 2017 - 10:54am PT
These are exactly the kinds of extreme conditions climate scientists warned about as a result of human-forced warming. And the impacts for Northern California over the past 24 hours have been terrible.

What is known is that this particular event is one of the worst wildfire disasters in California state history.

https://robertscribbler.com/2017/10/09/firestorm-1500-structures-destroyed-as-massive-wildfires-blaze-through-northern-california/
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 10, 2017 - 12:44pm PT
I assume climate denial in the US will cease when

X % of the population is killed by climate change

Y % of the population suffers extensive property damage from climate change

my guess is X=2% and Y=20%
the Fet

climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
Oct 10, 2017 - 12:57pm PT
Sorry climate change denial will never stop. The Trump presidency has shown me that no matter how obvious something is there will always be those who need to self-delude to believe what they need to believe. And there will be no shortage of people invested in the status quo who will feed them the alternative facts they need. It will be a smaller and smaller minority but there will always be some who will never change. I have pretty much given up on these folks and believe our time is better spent encouraging more rational people to action.
Cragar

climber
MSLA - MT
Oct 10, 2017 - 01:10pm PT
Nice equation Malamute but since X will most likely not be $white$ men/women I'd go up to something like 13-15% (a guess but I think it would be this high if not higher before 'denialists' will become realists.

For Y I'd expect it to be a little lower as the privileged class are the owners and as soon as the slightest loss of $$ occurs, action will take place, IMO. The feeding trough will be provided by least wealthy tax payers in our union.

Of course the two variables are tied to $$ like flies on sh_t as opposed to the measured reality of change. For the holders of $$ to remain the holders of $$, it is in their best interest for it to become a catastrophe (cough, Gov't relief, cough) and act like they never saw it coming and will now need assistance (cough, Gov't relief, cough) to continue their freedom($) granted by the UST. USPT = United Suckers Paying Taxes.

This is one of the $ad realitie$ of the U$, it is all about the $$. Empathy and understanding have been chewed and eaten by the billfolds of U$ $ociety.
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 10, 2017 - 08:54pm PT
We’ll only solve climate change by moving quickly from fossil fuels to clean energy.
Investors face an historic opportunity to capitalize on the transition and help governments meet their climate promises.
Find out why investors are choosing to DivestInvest.

http://divestinvest.org/
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 10, 2017 - 08:58pm PT
Drought and Heat, Worsened by Humans, Help Fuel California Fires

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/drought-heat-worsened-humans-help-fuel-california-fires-n809571
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 11, 2017 - 06:43pm PT
This Is Why California Can Expect More Deadly Fires And Drought
https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2017/10/10/california-deadly-fires-drought/#7b321d45d631

Droughts and wildfires: How global warming is drying up the North American monsoon
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/10/171009123151.htm

North American monsoon storms fewer but more extreme
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/07/170720193219.htm

The Future of the North American Monsoon
http://ocp.ldeo.columbia.edu/res/div/ocp/glodech/10Monsoon.html

The North American Monsoon (2004)
http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/products/outreach/Report-to-the-Nation-Monsoon_aug04.pdf

AP

Trad climber
Calgary
Oct 11, 2017 - 07:29pm PT
They will be when global food resources suffer in a big way
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 13, 2017 - 05:00pm PT
Those superstorms that scientists warned would result from climate change? They are here. The day of reckoning isn’t in the future. It is now.

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/editorials/la-ed-northern-california-fires-20171012-story.html

IMHO This is just the prelude
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 13, 2017 - 09:17pm PT
yosemite 5.9

climber
santa cruz
Oct 13, 2017 - 10:04pm PT
The Sun emits light at roughly 6000 K while the Earth does around 300 K,

The fraction of the spectrum absorbed by CO2, water vapor, etc, is higher at 300 K than at 6000 K, so the atmospheric CO2 lets a large fraction of the sunlight in and absorbs that the light radiated by the Earth.

Ed, can you please clarify the above?
Ed Hartouni

Trad climber
Livermore, CA
Oct 14, 2017 - 08:01pm PT
not sure what it the question is...

when an atom absorbs the "heat," in the form of photons of a particular frequency, it can get rid of that energy by radiating it or by conducting it to other atoms through collisions.

moosedrool

climber
Andrzej Citkowicz far away from Poland
Oct 14, 2017 - 11:13pm PT
Yosemite 5.9, it means that the "heat" from the sun (6000K) passes through the atmosphere and warms the earth. The earth emits that heat back, but it is no longer 6000K, but rather 300K (about room temperature). At that temperature, the heat is absorbed by the atmosphere more readily. So the heat is trapped, hence, the global worming. Some gasses, like carbon dioxide or methane absorb that heat very well, thus our worry about excessive emissions of those gasses.

Moose
Malemute

Ice climber
great white north
Oct 17, 2017 - 06:47pm PT
https://www.nature.com/news/three-years-to-safeguard-our-climate-1.22201
Messages 1841 - 1860 of total 1964 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
Post a Reply
 
Our Guidebooks
Check 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks


Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Review Categories
Recent Route Beta
Recent Gear Reviews