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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jul 11, 2016 - 10:24am PT
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Here's Corky's rig on the bottom. Not sure if that's his exact aircraft, but it might be.
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Jul 11, 2016 - 12:13pm PT
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Constant air attack now. Big CH-47's, Apaches, DC-10's. Get Some!
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this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
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Jul 11, 2016 - 12:16pm PT
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Best of luck to you guys.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 11, 2016 - 12:18pm PT
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Constant air attack now.
Why do they wait two days?
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
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Jul 11, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
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^^-AirOps isn't always instant grat, although with the concentration of $$$ in that area I was a little surprised myself.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Jul 11, 2016 - 12:44pm PT
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Often there is a resource lag when fires go from local control to being taken over by a national ICS team. Also, it's not like DC 10 tankers are just sitting around right now. The aircraft probably were elsewhere, had to be released and were subject to pilot time restrictions among other logistics. I'm sure it's frustrating but the feds actually do a pretty good job of moving stuff around many competing priorities. Whether there is enough to begin with is a question congress won't address.
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GLee
Social climber
Montucky
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Jul 11, 2016 - 01:14pm PT
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FWIW to Reilly & others......
That's all they have for tankers there? That's a sad commentary on our priorities.
That Pawnee might hold 400 gallons.
I'm thinking that the S(ingle)E(ngine) A(ir) T(anker) A/C shown is an Air Tractor AT-802A (http://www.airtractor.com/aircraft/802a ) using a Pratt Whitney PT6A-65AG turbine engine, and with a retardant capacity of 800 U.S. gal.
An orders of magnitude improvement over the recip Pawnee's of the past (if they were even used to drop retardant???? I have no idea).....
PS: Reilly, I agree with you on light helicopters like the A-Stars & Jet Dangers, if there is no one on the ground to take advantage of the cooling effect of the slurry drop!! Otherwise it's is just PITW IMHO.......
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Evel
Trad climber
Nedsterdam CO
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Jul 11, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
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They didn't wait two days. We had choppers from day one. The big boys showed up the first night. We've got agencies from across the front range working this, and as of last night it became a level II Fire which makes it fed. incident.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Jul 11, 2016 - 01:20pm PT
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I sort of doubt that anyone with a structure nearby would be bitching about how many gallons it holds in the face of not having something larger.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 11, 2016 - 01:24pm PT
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We had a fire here three weeks or so. Since it threatened Bradbury, next to Monrovia, whose
per capita income and home values makes Beverly Hills look like Compton, the response
was immediate and massive. Within a couple hours there was a DC-10, 3 BAE 146's, 2 Hercs,
2 Ericksons, and a swarm of Big Bells, including 2 Nighthawks! It is painfully obvious that the
Nederland Robespierre Chowder and Marching Society needs to man les barricades against
discrimination against hippies!
Evel, I only saw pics of pathetic Pawnees and A-Stars that first day. And this constant
fractured agency Battle of the Accountants is a big part of the problem. Everybody stands
with their hands behind their back waiting for somebody else to take over and spend their
money.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Jul 11, 2016 - 01:31pm PT
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The small tankers are super helpful. Maneuverable and a quick turnaround. Also less of a time issue for ground crews- people need to give the big tankers a lot of room on the live run. Those things can cause some serious slurry impact force. The smaller single engines are in and out. Great for slop overs, spot fires, etc.
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GLee
Social climber
Montucky
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Jul 11, 2016 - 01:32pm PT
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Oops! 3 posts & 10 minutes to late for Reilly and others to see....
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jul 11, 2016 - 01:36pm PT
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I get all that but before there are many ground pounders it sure seems like bigger is better for
laying down as wide and as long of a retardant line as possible. And from close observance
those big boys were extremely precise. They were releasing to the split second on their lead
plane's smoke. Excuse me for wanting things to be better for our fire fighters and citizens.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Jul 11, 2016 - 01:39pm PT
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Reilly, I appreciate your technical expertise, I really do....but sometimes you just seem to have a kneejerk reaction against anything that involves government employees and their decisions.
Best wishes to all who are near this event- it's very scary to have that kind of threat nearby one's home.
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the albatross
Gym climber
Flagstaff
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Jul 11, 2016 - 02:43pm PT
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From the inciiweb site it sounds like there is potential for more structures lost today on this fire.
Perhaps one reason there were not Aircranes and DC-10s immediately on scene is they were all over in Reilly's backyard? People need to realize that there are large fires going in many states around the West, not just in CA and CO. While we wring our hands in armchair quarterback frustration, understand that some 85,000 gallons of retardant were dropped both Saturday and Sunday on the Cold Springs fire.
Some are slamming the "light" helicopters with their 144 gallon buckets, but considering we as an organization catch 97% of fires during initial attack, and A-Stars are perhaps the most common helicopters in the fire business, something must be going right.
As a side note, consider taking a moment to extend your condolensces to the families and coworkers of the two BLM fire employees killed in a motor vehicle accident yesterday evening in northern NV. Motor vehicle accidents continue to be the leading killer of wild land firefighters.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Social climber
SLO, Ca
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Jul 11, 2016 - 03:04pm PT
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I was almost killed in crash coming off a jumper fire- the person who picked us up fell asleep and nearly drove us into the Feather River canyon. One of the guys I jumped the fire with grabbed the wheel and saved us.
Sorry to hear about the BLM accident.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jul 11, 2016 - 03:42pm PT
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Even more pressing need than aircraft to do these retardant drops is a real shortage of qualified pilots. These guys can only fly a certain number of hours before the FAA says "no more today." It's a very dangerous and highly skilled type of flying, especially with the huge load of retardant onboard the bird. A frequent (and fatal) error is pulling up before dropping and having the wings tear off the airplane.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Jul 11, 2016 - 09:41pm PT
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Roger that Broke...Wonder what workers comp is for those pilots...
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Jul 11, 2016 - 10:03pm PT
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^^^^^^
Not enough.
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