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JerryA
Mountain climber
Sacramento,CA
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May 27, 2016 - 07:56am PT
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John Fischer thought the Himalayas in the 1960s were the good -old-days & I now think that the 1990s were. Must be something to that?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 27, 2016 - 08:22am PT
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Jan, I liked your post to Robert and agree with you. Never will you find a better example of the economic interplay between the First World and the Third World.
The Sherpas are from one of the poorest countries while most clients are among the financial elite from the richest countries.
Is Everest worth climbing? It appears to be worth whatever people are willing to pay. Everest will always attract people because of it's status as the highest place on earth. Many of these people are not climbers in the strictest sense but they have the time and money to participate in the ultimate adventure reality game. And their participation is made possible ONLY because of the the part played by the sherpas.
I, for one, would never participate in a climb where underpaid "servants" (can you think of a better word?) pitched my tent, cooked my meals and fixed my ropes.
It's high time that sherpas obtained pay commensurate with their work....fixing ropes thru the Khumbu Icefall is arduous, dangerous work that requires high levels of skill and experience. Maybe highly paid western guides should do their share of it.
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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May 27, 2016 - 09:10am PT
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None of the big mountains in Asia have been climbed
without the help of the local populations.
I agree with Jim ,let the western geeds spend
some time fixing the icefall.
Edit : Jan , yes that's Venables foot
Years after Everest.
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AE
climber
Boulder, CO
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May 27, 2016 - 04:53pm PT
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Most here would agree that climbing, in whatever focus we choose, is more about the sense of experiencing the place, the movement, the partners, and less about the achievement/checklist. Everest, as with every sort of Biggest, Greatest, Hardest, etc. was always different, drawing certifiable non-climbers to their demise decades before the first real climbers managed it. It is still the Token pinnacle recognized by the greatest number of non-climbers, and so is a target for a vast variety of reasons outside those given for climbing the Nose, or the thousands of harder but obscure routes - about the same number of people have climbed the Thimble unroped as have reached the depths of the Mariannas Trench, for what it's worth. The majority of Everest climbers want the recognition of Hillary and Norgay, but without freely admitting the route is hardly a climb but a grueling, prolonged sufferfest. Using Everest as a means of personal achievement is an oxymoron, as most depend on scores of Sherpas, guides, and support team for any chance at success. Sherpas may need the money, but for Westerners guiding it is a mercenary act, taking big bucks from clients you know could never summit or even survive without you, and who probably share little of the mountaineer's interests or instincts. Guts and drive are admirable, especially when directed in constructive directions; as soon as Everest enters the picture, motivations get murky, and I'm not excluding amputees from that judgment.
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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May 28, 2016 - 06:49am PT
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The locals were quite happy to help
Not too many come through Kharta
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2016 - 09:28am PT
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Quite a sight! I'll bet the folks in Kharta are still talking about those crazy foreigners.
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Michael Browder
Mountain climber
Chamonix, France (Oregon originally)
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May 28, 2016 - 03:00pm PT
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It's amazing how little almost everyone on Supertopo knows about climbing on Everest, guided or otherwise. Listen to Robert L. He knows the score. I like Vitally's comments as well. But even Robert understates the case: the kindness and mountain spirit of Sherpa/Sherpani is not just somewhat over-romanticized. It is totally over-romanticized.
And since some here for some strange reason have chosen to bring Chamonix into the discussion, they should consider the following which is well known: the Compagnie des Guides de Chamonix is not at all a great organization to be associated with, but for different reasons than working for or with certain groups or companies in Nepal, of course. Anyone that thinks the Compagnie des Guides is fantastic should look at why there are so many 'guide independent' services in the area. Many, many guides would NEVER work for them or with them under any circumstances. Really, though, discussion of the situation in Chamonix has no relevance to any situation on Everest.
BTW, Maya Sherpa is a great person and high altitude climber, but not really a guide no matter what publicity may come out saying otherwise.
And, yep, to try and forestall the usual comebacks to me from you all, I've been a lot in the area, and I've been to and lived in other really really poor countries in Asia as well. I am continually amazed by how much even western workers in these places romanticize locals. They are just people, some better, some worse. Amazing how many elite climbers that some of you idolize have had problems with some of the Sherpas in Nepal while being close friends with others, for example. Some sherpas are real jerks and cannot accept that others may have superior skills, knowledge, or even physiology.
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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May 28, 2016 - 04:45pm PT
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Using Everest as a means of personal achievement is an oxymoron, as most depend on scores of Sherpas, guides, and support team for any chance at success
So if I climb ElCap, there is no personal achievement since I relied on a well trod route, I had a partner on the climb, I had mentors in the past, and I relied on a bevy of high-tech equipment without which I never would have gotten off the ground.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Topic Author's Reply - May 28, 2016 - 09:19pm PT
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I agree, some Sherpas are real jerks. The issue here however, is the discrepancy between the economic opportunities of themselves and their clients, as well as the discrepancies between western individualism personified by western climbers, and the more collective tribal consciousness of the Sherpas, and how that all plays out for people who have bucket lists to climb Everest.
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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May 29, 2016 - 06:32am PT
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The issue here is people claiming
To have climbed Everest without
O2 ( mr Cory Richards and ms Arnot)
Whilst jugging fixed ropes to the top installed by
Sherpas using 02 not to mention
Supported by a string of camps and
A huge cast !
Nothing new here as this was done 38
Years ago.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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May 29, 2016 - 07:31am PT
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Yikes August West.....apples vs. oranges in your analogy with El Cap....big difference between sherpa support and depending on a partner who has taken the time to develop similar SKILLS to yours to succeed on El Cap.
Many climb Everest with massive sherpa support and guides who have never developed much in the way of climbing or mountaineering skills.....they have relied on their checkbooks.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Ashland, Oregon
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May 29, 2016 - 09:14am PT
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Why climb Everest? So you can hang out with the cool crowd!
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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May 29, 2016 - 11:39am PT
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Two Sherpa guides for every
Client .
50,000$ please!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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May 29, 2016 - 12:06pm PT
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Looks like the high altitude alpine version of the Hal Dome cable route...
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Stewart Johnson
Mountain climber
lake forest
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May 29, 2016 - 04:17pm PT
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We brought two bottles of oxygen to
Base camp for emergency.
And several bottles of Good booze!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Colorado & Nepal
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Topic Author's Reply - May 29, 2016 - 05:42pm PT
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Whatever the other controversies, I say Stewart has the most entertaining Everest photos.
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john hansen
climber
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May 29, 2016 - 09:17pm PT
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I don't think Paul aka Stewart , was any where near an existing route.
New route on the biggest face with a small team . Doubt they left much on the route. That was a team of very experienced climbers.
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