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kpinwalla2
Social climber
WA
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Jul 26, 2015 - 11:40am PT
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Another interesting application of climbing rules - in this case, the "no one can add/delete fixed protection after the first ascent, except by permission of the first ascentionist" rule. Suppose someone solos an unprotectable 5.9 slab for it's FA. By the "rules" no one can climb that route (forever) unless he/she also solos it. Applying this logic, someone like (an evil twin of) Alex Honnold could walk into a new area, solo dozens of routes and effectively prevent them from ever being repeated.
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big wall paul
Trad climber
tahoe, CA
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Jul 26, 2015 - 11:42am PT
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heh, the only way that bashy is a chipped hold is if some free climber plans on pulling on the wire to move past! Ouch, that would be painful.
Or am I missing your point?
comparing nailing routes to chipped holds for free climbs is comparing apples to oranges.
Nailing routes you bash pins and mashies in and sometimes scar the rock in the process, but as long as you don't drill new holes for bolts or bat hooks, it's ok.
Whereas we can all agree, chipping holds for a free route is definitely not good.
different rules for different climbs.
But I don't think they're stupid rules, just different.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2015 - 11:46am PT
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only in your minds are they different. in reality a chip in the rock is a chip in the rock...
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big wall paul
Trad climber
tahoe, CA
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Jul 26, 2015 - 11:47am PT
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Warbler:
using that logic, you're saying we should make the PO Wall a 3000' bolt ladder?
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big wall paul
Trad climber
tahoe, CA
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Jul 26, 2015 - 11:49am PT
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Tradman: I agree, but also they are different in the guidebook: one is a free climb, the other aid. so different rules for each: a chip on an aid route is fine, a chip on a free not.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2015 - 11:59am PT
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And that's stupid;)
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
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Jul 26, 2015 - 12:09pm PT
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Suppose someone solos an unprotectable 5.9 slab for it's FA. By the "rules" no one can climb that route (forever) unless he/she also solos it
What is "Granite Garden", Alex?
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Jul 26, 2015 - 12:16pm PT
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It's all the same to me if it's left in the wall after you pass.
How long it lasts matters to some.
Size doesn't matter, so I'm told, from others.
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big wall paul
Trad climber
tahoe, CA
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Jul 26, 2015 - 12:21pm PT
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Kpin:
yes, that's why most of Tuolumne is off limits to most climbers.
I like to bend that rule a little: I usually bring a hammer and a few pins on free climbs, just in case I find a section of climbing that is un-protectable with standard gear or existing fixed protection has fallen out.
Any piton I put in I leave fixed for future parties.
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perswig
climber
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Jul 26, 2015 - 03:16pm PT
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Are you bored, Nick?
And ... where'd you find the bashie?
Dale
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2015 - 03:40pm PT
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It is in the seam just left of my partner Ryans butt
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CCT
Trad climber
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Jul 26, 2015 - 03:46pm PT
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Big Wall Paul and KipinWalla speak truth.
Sad sad Tuolumne. So many good climbs. So many mediocre climbers who don't want to risk death on 5.9 and below.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2015 - 03:52pm PT
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Not picking on aid climbers just babeling about how st00pid our rulze are. How about the not grabbing the draw thing. I know a few folks who broke their ankles because it was drilled in to them that they are not allowed to grab the draw. FCK That! If i am sketched out and I get that sucker clipped to the bolt I will grab on to it until I get the rope clipped in. I can allways try annother time to get it clean unless I am on IR with a broken ankle because of some stupid rule.
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Edge
Trad climber
Betwixt and Between Nederland & Boulder, CO
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Jul 26, 2015 - 03:58pm PT
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Looks like a busy day on the VMC.
Bashie ethics aside, that looks like a ridiculously contrived aid line so close to a mega classic.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2015 - 04:03pm PT
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You could probobly reach up and clip it if you wern't so worried about your feet greasing off the wet slab.....
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The Call Of K2 Lou
Mountain climber
North Shore, BC
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Jul 26, 2015 - 04:14pm PT
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I only climb onsight free solo naked at night. I carry a backpack filled with rocks and breathe through a straw to combat any unforeseen advantages I may have gained.
Doing any less than that just means you're a poseur.
;P
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cintune
climber
The Utility Muffin Research Kitchen
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Jul 26, 2015 - 05:19pm PT
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Jul 26, 2015 - 05:32pm PT
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There are so many good well protected climbs that I have no issue with leaving climbs as their FA left them. If that means there are are some un-repeated contrivances out there, I am OK with that. I greatly prefer that proposition than one where ever generation feels entitled to re-interpret how much protection a climb should have. Bold test pieces that are under protected will fall into obscurity and fade away, maybe to one day be rediscovered by a future bold generation.
Chipping, chiseling, and other intentional rock modification is awful. If you are going to alter the rock, might as well sink a decent bolt. Trenched heads are as bad as chiseled holds.
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steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
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Jul 26, 2015 - 05:46pm PT
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Tradmanclimbs,
Just curious, are you saying that the bashie you posted a photo of, is just over the lip of the overhang, on the DD?
It must be a recent placement, as I was up there last year, and never noticed it. I hope they don't pound too hard in that seam, and have the whole flake break off, on top of them.
Glad the route is getting done, but I really can't understand why anyone would place a bashie there?
I bet few climbers who do the DD realize that the 3/8" bolt on the 4th pitch,
on the slab, above the overhang, was placed years after the 1st ascent. It was quite a committing lead BITD. I assume most people clip that bolt today.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2015 - 05:59pm PT
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Steve. It is right above the roof on P2 in that seam . I believe the route is called Rageing Rainbow and that pitch is rated A3+. Nail the seam straight up, thinner near the top. Bat hook over a small overlap to 2 bolt belay was the description in the Syks book. Even though I do think its a bit silly to have an aid pitch that close to a free pitch I am not specifically picking on this route or aid climbing. Just making fun of all our stupid rules...
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