Stupid climbing rules

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tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 26, 2015 - 06:37am PT

lets face it, our climbing rules are basicly stupid. One guy drills a bolt aid ladder and he is a hero. The next guy chips a single hold to make a free move and avoid makeing an aid move on a bolt and he is a zero. Etc, Etc, Etc.
Will someone please explaine to me why this is more ethical than a bolt?

thebravecowboy

climber

The Good Places

Jul 26, 2015 - 06:47am PT

As long as it went in ground up, on stance, while sporting a Carmen Miranda headpiece, it's cool with me...

patrick compton

Trad climber

van

Jul 26, 2015 - 06:55am PT

That is lovely photo. I feel more ethical just looking at it!

WBraun

climber

Jul 26, 2015 - 06:58am PT

Will someone please explain to me why this is more ethical than a bolt?

That is an example of an illusion created within the mind.

They believe that they have eliminated a bolt.

But it's the same as both a bolt and a copperhead/aluminhead where manufactured into the rock by force.

This an example how the climber can justify forcing a line to an acceptable bolt count on a big wall.

Just chisel out seams that take no other gear and paste heads .......

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

Jul 26, 2015 - 07:00am PT

Good question. Bolts got their legitimacy during the "Golden Age" of Yosemite when getting up big walls was the name of the game. Free climbing was very secondary to aid. Bolt ladders were put in where deemed necessary but I don't think that chipping holds we're considered.

Both chipping and bolting mar the rock landscape. Both chipping and bolts are often deemed unnecessary by later climbers with better skills. Holds we're chipped on the first ascents of The Gripper and Outer Limits which are moderate climbs by today's standards.

Bolts for aid often become bolts for protection when the section is free climbed. A chipped hole forever negates the chance for better climbers doing the section free in its natural state.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2015 - 07:00am PT

That is exactly my point. Most of our climbing rulze are illusions created within our minds..

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2015 - 07:03am PT

I am not just talking about chipping Vs bolt ladder. I am speaking of the whole shebang....

Bushman

Social climber

Elk Grove, California

Jul 26, 2015 - 07:03am PT

I would feel safer with one of these.

mouse from merced

Trad climber

The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.

Jul 26, 2015 - 07:05am PT

Reglas para la escalada?
Estas loco!

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2015 - 07:06am PT

And bolts were legit long before Yosemite...

limpingcrab

Trad climber

the middle of CA

Jul 26, 2015 - 07:42am PT

Every climb in an area has to be the same style.

I.e. Tuolumne

k-man

Gym climber

SCruz

Jul 26, 2015 - 08:16am PT

I'm not saying one is better than the other, but in terms of why place a head instead of a bolt, here's some reasoning. A bolt is A1 and takes no real skill to place, whereas copperheading takes more skill. Copperhaeads are faster to place and are less bomber than a bolt.

So instead of placing an A1 bolt ladder next to a long seam, you have a scary set of heads.

From what I gather, aid climbing is an exercise in fear--why do a route if every move is easy A1, where is the thrill?

As for other silly climbing rules--I like the one that says "Pull down, not out."

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2015 - 08:54am PT

So you are saying that bashing a hole in the rock to place shitty gear is better than drilling a hole to place good gear? that is exactly my point ;)

big wall paul

Trad climber

tahoe, CA

Jul 26, 2015 - 08:55am PT

That head is more ethical than a bolt because you're using what the stone has offered to place a piece, and that one looks pretty darn bomber to me.

whereas a bolt can be placed virtually anywhere.

It kinda looks like the crack was widened by chipping out the sides, which is frowned upon, but perhaps it looks white due to sloppy chiseling of the head, not chipping.
Or maybe some of the hammer hits were direct, ie, not using the cold chisel.
But even if it was chipped intentionally, it's still more ethical than a bolt.

Todd Eastman

climber

Bellingham, WA

Jul 26, 2015 - 10:17am PT

A climb gets only one first ascent, subsequent ascents have to deal with the actions and often ego driven tactics used by the first party. The quick fixes deployed whether for speed or style usually don't stand the test of time and the route needs to be updated. "Fair means" by the first party should remain approximately the same for later parties.

If a tactic appears that it will not stand repeated use, then why not encourage first ascent parties to use more permanent placements?

big wall paul

Trad climber

tahoe, CA

Jul 26, 2015 - 10:54am PT

That mashy looks like it would withstand over a hundred clips.
And when it does fail, either by the cable fraying
or the mashy popping out, that party will just have to place another in it's place.
Such is the fun of doing classic nailing routes!

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 26, 2015 - 10:54am PT

Ha, ha, > in this case that would have caused a real shitstorm:) This A4 line is 3ft left of a 10+ corner. I am not picking on this climb specifically. I just took the photo yesterday and thought it was a cool shot exposeing how stupid most of our rulze are. in this case chiseling a hole in the rock and bashing a piece of metal into it proved that one man was a bad ass yet annother equally respected man in the same state chiseled a single hold to keep a 6 pitch 5 easy climb from haveing a single point of aid or a single shut down move. this man was tarred feathered and flayed to within an inch of his life..