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Greg Barnes
climber
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Feb 21, 2015 - 10:28am PT
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Just because they don't count in your local area does not mean that they don't count in other areas. In my opinion FA TRs do count, they are a useful way of reducing overbolting and squeeze jobs.
It may seem ridiculous to you, but plenty of things about climbing seem ridiculous to a lot of people. Redpointing at all could be defined as ridiculous, what if the FA was defined as the first onsight?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 10:29am PT
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If you are claiming a ground up Fa then a previous TR by yourself would need to be mentioned. after a top down recon mission Locker and Big Blue came back for a ground up attempt at the imposing arette.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Feb 21, 2015 - 10:30am PT
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You established that there is a climbable path. That is a basic definition for First Ascent. How does that not apply?
I will agree it is no great feat in the case of a top rope. It takes nothing away from the true prize in my opinion which is the First Free Ascent.
Edit: No one said a top rope was ground up. If they did then they lied... Lol
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Feb 21, 2015 - 10:35am PT
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Technically if you have to clean a route, you can't get an onsite anyways.....
It's all semantics.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 10:37am PT
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The most absurd thing on the fcking planet would be the concept that someone without the sack to lead a climb could top rope something, name it and then claim ownership of that climb preventing anyone else from climbing it ground up and adding nessicary fixed gear. Totally fcking pathetic. As bad as stealing candy from little kids! there are other ways to prevent squeeze jobs but claiming top rope fa's is not one of them. I will never acnowlege my own or anyone elses top rope foray as an FA. top ropeing simply does not count...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 10:41am PT
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Alex, that was my point. there is the asteric that you had previous knowlege of the terraine. you equipped it ground up but you still rapped in to have a look first. Still a great adventure but something that needs to be disclosed.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 10:43am PT
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No lies involved. TR does not count as an FA anymore than mastubating counts as getting laied.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 10:53am PT
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have you ever equipped a route ground up? Perhaps you rap over a huge roof and have a look. You get all excited and come back with a partner, hike to the base and climb it your god damed straight it counts as a ground up FA but the inspection needs to be mentioned.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 10:58am PT
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etsablished TR routs are a bit different. usually there is no record of who did them first. they may be in areas that are not bolt friendly so caution would be taken to not bolt if it would cause a big stink. I would stick to my guns that TR does not count and call it an FA :) thousands may have pleasured themselfs over that piece of stone yet none had actually gotten the FA:)
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 11:04am PT
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Alex. it shure as hell is not a rap bolted climb if you start at the bottom and climb to the top. so what if you had a look first. Stinky Blue Butt Plug 5.11a this climb was inspected previously on rappell. the party then returned the following spring and bagged the ground up FA. If the rapped in to trundel as is sometimes nessicary I would mention the trundel and change the wording to Equipped ground up VS Ground up FA
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Feb 21, 2015 - 11:05am PT
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If a top rope falls over in a forest, but no one is there to hear it...is it still a top rope........
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 11:07am PT
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Established means populer. as in it is commonly climbed as a TR. tread lightly before adding fixed gear etc. somthing at a raw cliff that has been TRd once maybe years ago is different.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Feb 21, 2015 - 11:19am PT
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If top roping were made illigal, only top ropers would have guns....
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 11:19am PT
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This is top down this is ground up prior knowlege changes the level of purity but certainly not the mechanics of the adventure.
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Tork
climber
Yosemite
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Feb 21, 2015 - 11:20am PT
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Todd and Tradman, my 2 favorite posters, I tend to click on their threads anytime I see one. Can count on good climbing content, photos, etc . Locker on the othethand, not always so sure. The scarry thing here is I
Oh god say it isn't so. I
I
I agree with Locker.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 11:23am PT
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Correct. FFA is what you get when you free an aid climb. Since top ropeing does not count FA is what you get when you do the FA of a climb that has not yet been led free. If the wimpy top ropers aided the thing first then they would get the FA and someone would then have to try and get the FFA ;)
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Feb 21, 2015 - 11:25am PT
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Locker does things differently because he is from Landers;....(Why couldn't Jesus be born in Landers?.....because they couldn't find three wise men and a virgin)....
.
What do you call a pretty girl in Landers?........a visitor....
What do you call a high school graduate in Landers?.... Boss....
Why do all the joshua tree in the Park lean to the north?...
because Landers SUKS.....
Why do people from landers have beautiful noses?.....because they are all hand picked...
Why did the Landers resident cross the road....?
(I'm just wondering how he got out of jail...).....
What is the difference between a bowling ball and a girl from landers?.......A bowling ball is hard to pick up...
What do girls from landers use for birth control?....
their personalities...
What is the definition of safe sex in Landers?
putting signs on all the animals that bite and kick.....
Why are rectal thermometers banned in Landers?...
They cause too much brain damage....
What are the best 4 years of life for a Landers resident?
Third grade...
What do Landers girls say after sex?
Get off me Dad;...you are crushing my smokes...
What do Tornados and people from landers have in common?..
They both end up in trailer parks...
Why don't kids play hide and seek in Landers?..
no one would go looking for them...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 11:37am PT
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If the climb was redicliously hard and significant(not anything I would be climbing) it would bear mentioning that it was previously top roped by so and so but Not mention it as an FA. your run of the mill 5.10 or whatever the top rope does not even bear mentioning. a populer top rope would go in the book as Dirty Pantys 5.3 a long standing top rope problem finally led by Big Blue. FA Big Blue and the Bluetts 2015
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 12:06pm PT
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Not lieing cause TR is not an FA:)TR weather it be mine or anyone elses simply does not count
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Feb 21, 2015 - 12:47pm PT
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We do not all live and climb in east gumby Phuck!
Some of us live and climb around exclusive neighborhoods.
I am only up to post sixty one so I will weigh back in the point is semantics
The meaning of the wordzzz be back later sorry
What does first mean and the root of the word accent? Is you a teacher aren't you ain't gonna take it from that point o' seeing things? I do believe that ground up no rope is the most pure, way to climb up anything.
way back ropes were not to be trusted and down climbing was as important as climbing up things
The change in view of how to do things coincides with change in technology.
The changes come when survival is the name of the game.
Both of the proponents can be right
but Ground up is the ultimate style to strive for .
I really need to sleep it off but when the guests at the Mnt house complained about the noise of ringing pinz going in bashing pins stopped and we climbed for twenty more years before trad climbers that tradman portrays correctly got us thrown off. It was not that black and white but for argument sake that is kind of how it went down!
P e d a n t i c ? . P e d a n t a c i s m ?
H o o b i e ?
I .w i l l. H a v e. T o. . L o o k . .T h a t. .Up?
This is not a dis, my Shablet goes bad and that is one way to try and reign in the crazy, auto correct!! Sorry about the crazy It. Can't. Be Helped
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