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msiddens
Trad climber
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so damn sad. I hope to get to EPC someday but the concept of a simul rappel has never been something I'd consider unless pushed to from risk of hazards such as weather.
My deepest condolences.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Simul-rapping might be fine when there are bomber anchors and great rope.
Obviously there are situations where it doesn't all fit. One person at a time hanging full weight from the anchor is enough for me. Thanks.
Climbing has been made up of "less than" situations from day one. Teaching anyone that simul-rap is standard fare is a disservice to us all.
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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Why are you bringing up simul-rapping? It doesn't appear that either of these accidents had anything to do with that.
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Because it has been brought up previously in this thread, regardless whether these accidents had it involved or not.
Sorry if it crossed your rap info threshold somehow.
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newarkwildcat
Sport climber
Konstanz
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Jan 13, 2015 - 05:27am PT
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Why did the second person not learn out of the mistake???
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Manny
Social climber
tempe
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Jan 13, 2015 - 06:10am PT
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Sad situation. I had a bi-colored rope with one end cut and a friend borrowed it while we were in EPC. I told her to be careful because it had been cut. While out, she loaned it to a third party without telling them. One of them fell 15' to the ground when they rapped on it. Lucky. Since then I've resolved to cut both ends of a bi-colored rope instead of only the damaged one. Thank goodness nobody had more than a harsh memory and some bruises.
I have rappelled with and without knots, mostly without. I have climbed Time Wave Zero and rapped safely off without knots. IMHO, it is the loss of vigilance that lead to this tragedy in the first incident. In my mind, that is the most dangerous error you could make when descending, whether you walk an exposed trail and fall or rap off your ropes, I believe this is the major factor in the first tragedy.
The second incident's cause is still unknown.
Until you are on flat ground, your life is at stake. RIP gentlemen.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jan 13, 2015 - 09:13am PT
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Nice post Manny, thx.
Rappelling with knotted ropes piled in a rope bucket can eliminate the stuck knot problem, although it requires a bucket and time in preparation, but works well in the wind.
Actually, you do not need a rope bucket for this, just coil the rope and hang it in slings. One on each side does well.
When we were in EPC, this is exactly what we did on windy days. The walls have so much vegetation that can catch the ropes as the wind blows them hither and tither, we'd take the time to carefully coil the ropes before each rap.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 13, 2015 - 09:16am PT
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Yes K-man
That's how it's done.
Just stack the rope and carry it with you as you rappel.
So simple so elementary.
Why people need a bucket?
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Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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Jan 13, 2015 - 09:36am PT
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I have a bi-weave rope with one end cut. I used a rope marker to make a new middle mark. The middle mark is MUCH easier to see than the change in weave pattern.I'm not sure I'd be willing to cut both ends just to make the weave even. On a rope with no pattern/color change, I've made two fat marks (using the pre-existing mark) equal distant from the middle and a skinny mark right in the new middle. In my case there was not much rope cut off so it was easy to tell that there were multiple marks. Maybe confusing and not foolproof if I were to loan out a rope (something I have rarely done), but it has worked for me and I always tell my partners about it.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
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Jan 13, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
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Some people advocate putting marks near the ends of your rope so you know when you are getting close to the ends. I don't agree with this. At least one accident that I know of happened because a climber thought one of those marks was the middle mark.
If you are going to mark your rope, I would suggest only marking the middle.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver, Colorado
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Jan 13, 2015 - 01:41pm PT
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I think you have to stop look and listen when you rappel, like they tell you to do when you cross the train tracks. Trouble is, once you've crossed those tracks a thousand times you stop believing trains are dangerous.
Gotta admit I don't tie knots in the ends of my ropes. I can easily imagine myself starting to pull the rope before I remembered to untie the knots. Once the knot is out of reach you have an issue. If it gets stuck in the rap anchor, you will probably need a rescue. Not as bad as rapping off the end but could be dangerous if you're on Baffin Island.
Cutting off one end of the rope so the middle mark is no longer the middle is asking for trouble. But not the root cause of the accident, which is not taking rappelling seriously enough. You need to pay extra attention when you're not tied in, particularly if you climb a lot and the exposure doesn't bother you.
* This actually amazes me about people spending extended periods of time in portaledges. Seems like the more time you spend there, the more likely you're going to drop one of your shoes, etc. It's so easy to forget what a strange place you're in.
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Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
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Jan 22, 2015 - 12:51pm PT
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An easy way to avoid rappelling off the end of a rope and to avoid knots getting stuck is to simply tie the ends of the rope(s) into your harness.
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