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nah000
climber
no/w/here
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brutal.
condolences to friends and family of the deceased.
and may those that were first on the scene, in time, find peace.
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Gilroy
Social climber
Bolderado
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Alton, I figured we'd hear stories from you after your trip but nothing like this. I had a day like yours once. I hope you and Julie hold each otter close and find some measure of peace and accommodation of such horrific events.
Sounds like there is a group of you in the Potrero seeking solace. It's never easy. Persistence furthers.
Keith
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Wow, such sad madness. I cannot imagine the grief & wonderment of life you all must be feeling at the close climber's camp at EPC.
I climbed at EPC for ~3 weeks with the Atomizer, and although we were told that simul-rapping was the way to go, we tried that once then abandoned the technique for regular raps.
I've never tied knots at the end of my rap lines, it's just too time consuming to find both ends before each rap (silly, I suppose). But while rapping at EPC, I for the first time used an autobloc for most all rappels.
Be safe out there folks, and Joe, looking forward to the January Final Friday weekend!
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BigBadWolfie
Trad climber
Durham, NC
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anyone know who the 26-year-old climber from Austin was? I saw somewhere else it was someone from Arkansas. A good climbing friend of mine is from there and is worried it might be someone he knows.
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Gilroy
Social climber
Bolderado
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Every report I've seen so far refers to a climber from Arkansas, not Austin.
RIP
KG
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, to all of those that lost dear friends,
companions or family in these accidents, my condolences to you all...
i will surely keep you and their families in my prayers at this sad hard time... :(
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altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
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To clarify, the second climber was originally from Arkansas but had been living in Austin.
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labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
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Sad news. My condolences to family, friends and the people who have had to deal with this. Be careful out there people.
Erik
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altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
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Please refrain from commenting with any names of the fallen climbers. Families have requested that the names remain offline while loved ones are still being informed. Please respect these wishes.
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R. Kelly Liggin
climber
Denver
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"The justification for not tying knots in the end of rappel ropes doesn't make sense to me. Knots rarely get hung up with careful rope management and typically are easy to undo if they become stuck."
Patently, not even remotely close to true. Climb long (usually crack) routes for long enough and you will eventually epic because of stuck, knotted ropes. I have, and it sucks. Sucks enough that I won't tie knots anymore. Which has worked fine for me for more than 15 years.
Where you counsel careful rope management, I simply employ careful repelling.
It's not a technique I recommend for everyone. But posting grand, universal statements about how easy it all must be to get knots unstuck...
...it's not really helpful.
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cindylou
Trad climber
Colorado
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"Patently, not even remotely close to true. Climb long (usually crack) routes for long enough and you will eventually epic because of stuck, knotted ropes. I have, and it sucks. Sucks enough that I won't tie knots anymore. Which has worked fine for me for more than 15 years."
R Kelly, I completely disagree with you and wholeheartedly agree with Wallman. Knot the ends of your rope. 2 climbers are dead because they failed to knot the ends of their rope. This is such a sad, unnecessary loss of life.
The Rocky Mountain Rescue Group published a study in the Wilderness and Environmental Medicine Journal on 14 years of rock climbing accidents in Boulder County, Colorado. 20% of climbers rescued were involved in accidents where the belayer or rappeller lost control of the lowering or ran out of rope before reaching the ground.
I, too was in EPC when these accidents occurred and shared a wonderful conversation with the fallen climber from Austin prior to his accident.
Condolences and deepest sympathies to all.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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I'd have to agree with avoiding generalizations.
The wisdom of knots on the end of rappel ropes varies considerably by rock / crag type and conditions. Great for tall, steep granite and sandstone faces in places like the Valley and Eldo, less so in other places like Red Rocks. Up here in the Gorge we can encounter stiff east winds which will blow ropes sideways and knots are not the way to go.
And rappelling pretty much sucks no matter how you look at it. Knots or not, being exceptionally cautious and double/triple checking everything before and [continuously] during a rappel is not unwarranted.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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Awful news, condolences to the families and friends.
As for the knot in the end of a rap line jamming, the rappeller is always above the knot so getting to it to clear it should never be an issue. There is really no excuse not to put a knot in a rope being rapped, unless you can see both ends on the ground
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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...the rappeller is always above the knot...
Except when they're not. Probably a better topic for a new and different thread...
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WBraun
climber
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When your number is up it doesn't matter whether you have a knot on the end of your rope or not.
It doesn't matter.
Your number comes up and you will be toast no matter what, SORRY......
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Aurora Colorado
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The first accident, I think I understand. The second one, I don't. I noticed that the police were concerned that the body of the second victim was moved before they got there. One article said there was a loud noise like rockfall, maybe was the climber falling, who knows. But it wasn't clear from the articles that this second accident resulted from rapping off the end of the rope.
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MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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I can't imagine what it would be like to be hit by a fallen climber while on lead.
What a terrible series of events at a place that has seen few deaths. Condolences to all family, friends and those there affected by this tragedy.
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ruppell
climber
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No sh!t Mr E.
That memory will be there for life.
Epcclimber
If you need to talk to someone do it. I've seen some pretty horrible things both climbing related and as a firefighter. I can tell you from first hand experience venting helps.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Rappelling with knotted ropes piled in a rope bucket can eliminate the stuck knot problem, although it requires a bucket and time in preparation, but works well in the wind.
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