Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 52 of total 52 in this topic |
chill
climber
between the flat part and the blue wobbly thing
|
|
A german alpinist suffered a fall of several meters in Potrero Chico and died.
|
|
10b4me
climber
|
|
Looks like a German climber was killed in a fall. Weather was hampering the retrieval of the body.
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
Magic Ed may have details.
I've sent him a PM and hope it gets through.
|
|
dagibbs
Trad climber
Ottawa, Ontario
|
|
Ed was in the hospital when I left EPC on December 26th -- don't know if he is out yet, so there may be a delay hearing from him.
|
|
MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
|
|
Translation:
A German climber lost his life after he was climbing in the municipality of Hidalgo.
Civil Protection Department said the accident report was received last night at 21:00 .
But weather conditions , explained a source , the rescue will take place in the course of the morning .
Although it was reported yesterday that the nationality of the mountaineer was American , today confirmed that it is in Germany.
This morning only said that the climber suffered a fall of several meters that caused his death on the Potrero Chico community in the Pico del Tordo place .
|
|
Manny
Social climber
tempe
|
|
A friend in EPC posted on FB that the climber died on Time Wave Zero. Not El Toro.
|
|
MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
|
|
Meh. "Several meters" doesn't tell us much...
Here's a topo of the climb:
Edited: vv Thanks Ruppell, didn't do that one...
|
|
ruppell
climber
|
|
Getting off timewave as super straight forward Mister E. You either rap it or walk off. Most choose to rap. A recovery off of it might be a little more problematic depending om how far up the climb the body is.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
Well, you can fall 'several' meters and hit your head.
|
|
KRS-Grun
Trad climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 4, 2015 - 08:03am PT
|
Here is a rough Google translation from El Horizante. It sounds like a rappelling accident. No knot on the end of the rope and rappelling off the end.
El Horizonte - Authorities in the municipality of Hidalgo, Nuevo Leon, as well as elements of civil protection of the state confirmed the death of a climber of German origin who was practicing rappelling at the peak known as El Toro, in the community of Potrero Chico.
Although they have not released the deceased general, it is known that the report was conducted from late Friday by fellow tour of French origin.
But the weather and dense fog covering the peaks of this community have prevented the authorities from reaching where the body.
It is presumed that the deceased man was already in decline when his rope rappel was completed, by not making a knot of protection, the climber fell from near the top of the peak and died.
In place already elements of the prosecution, Hidalgo and municipal police are awaiting the arrival of the helicopter civil protection the state to rescue the body and then is transferred to large university hospital.
This site is normally attended by dozens of foreigners who practice rappelling these peaks of over 300 meters.
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
Sad thing....
RIP fellow climber.
|
|
KRS-Grun
Trad climber
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jan 4, 2015 - 08:21am PT
|
I hope I am not spreading rumors but I just heard of another climber passing away rappelling on Estrellita. It's been a bad week in Potrero. I will update when I know more.
|
|
WallMan
Trad climber
Denver, CO
|
|
Returned from EPC this morning. This is what was communicated as I understood it:
Two very strong climbers, a German and a French, climbed Time Wave Zero on Friday January 2nd, simul climbing much of the route. At one of the first rappels, the German climber rappelled off the end of the rope, taking the rope with him, falling about 11 pitches, and landed near the third class bivy ledge about half way up the route. The rope may have been an 80 meter rope that was previously cut, therefore middle mark may not have been the middle of the rope. The rope belonged to the German. There were no knots in the rope. There was a party following this team, one of which may have been slightly injured by the falling German. The following party continued on to pick up the stranded Frenchman.
All info related above is third hand information.
The justification for not tying knots in the end of rappel ropes doesn't make sense to me. Knots rarely get hung up with careful rope management and typically are easy to undo if they become stuck.
News of an accident on Estrellita did not reach Posada's by noon on Saturday (yesterday).
The German fatality weighed heavily on the minds of many of us at EPC. Rest in peace fallen comrade.
Wally
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
falling about 11 pitches,
Yes, that would be several meters....
R.I.P. fellow climber.
|
|
cat t.
Sport climber
CA
|
|
Another couple mentions of a second fatality on Instagram posts (an odd news source I realize)
http://instagram.com/p/xcnWtSlOiy/?modal=true
Caption from the post:
This weekend, while Richard and I were #climbing on this spire, and the guys were on the opposing big wall, an experienced German climber in between us had just finished 24 pitches of intense climbing and was setting up to rappel down on his initial descent. For reasons unknown, he did not have knots tied into the ends of his rope, and so he rappelled off the end of his rope. He hit another climber leading on pitch 19 below him, landed somewhere on a ledge on the wall, and was not found that evening. Richard talked to the climber that was hit by the falling man, and though he was shaken and in disbelief, he was uninjured. Our guys were just getting off the wall that night when police, ambulances, and other climbers were trying to figure out what to do. There was talk about rallying a group of experienced climbers to search and recover (because there is no search and rescue/recovery in #PotreroChico) The following day a chopper flew in to recover the German man's body. To everyone's disbelief, soon after the chopper arrived, a second young climber from Arkansas took a similar fall. Though a group of climbers rushed in to offer medical aid, he lost his life as well. We ask everyone to take a moment and pray for the families and friends of these two. It has left a heavy sorrowful pain on our group as we head out in disbelief. We encourage all #climbers to never hesitate to check and recheck you and your partners gear at every opportunity, and always knot the ends of your ropes. Words cannot explain the amount of love prayers and condolences we extend towards the families of their beloved adventurers.
and here
http://instagram.com/p/xcPFRHjnlI/?modal=true
Seeing the bird while you're #climbing is never a good thing. While this was a body recovery mission, we had no f*#king clue what horrible, life-changing events lay just a few hours ahead. While rappelling off Estrellita in #elpotrerochico, #mexico, a member of the party directly below us fell about 300 feet from the top of the third rappel. We called an ambulance from where we were on the fourth rappel and knew there was little to do at that point but get ourselves down safely. Fellow climbers with medical training rushed up and tried everything, but the young climber from Arkansas was gone. Several dozen more climbers came up to assist with body recovery, only to be hassled for hours afterward by the Mexican authorities for moving the body. No one can believe two climbers died in two days in separate but similar rappel accidents here, a place where there are only two deaths since it has been developed.
So, so incredibly sorry to hear this. RIP.
|
|
Epcclimber
Big Wall climber
Cincinnati, ohio
|
|
I was the climber who was struck by the falling climber on pitch 19, I, as well as the others on the route that day are uninjured. My heart goes out to the friends, partner, and family of the fallen climber. All information posted above is consistent with what his partner believes happened. There was no other witnesses as the other party was on the other side of the summit and the rest of us (two other parties) were well below on pitch 19 and 20. No further speculation is necessary.
Thank you.
|
|
Port
Trad climber
Norwalk, CT
|
|
F*#k. I can't imagine going through that. I hope you're alright brother.
|
|
Joe
Social climber
Santa Cruz
|
|
Sad, but true. Two deaths in less than 24 hours. Word is in both accidents the deceased rappelled off the end of their ropes. Ten cuidado amigos.
|
|
altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
|
|
Just returned from EPC tonight. My girlfriend and I were rappelling Estrellita when the second fatality happened. She is the poster of the photo of the helicopter with the caption describing the second incident. We are still having a very, very hard time proccesing all of this and can't even imagine what the friends and family of the fallen climber are going through. A group of climbers with various levels of medical training (none MD's) we are on scene very quickly and we did what we could but in this situation that is not much. Other then the climbers partner and two friends who were rapping above, my GF and I were roughly second and third on scene. Please keep all speculations to a minimum out of respect for the climber and his family as we are still trying to figure out what happened, all though, we may never know. It was an extremely crazy night and I feel like it really hasn't ended.
May these two beautiful souls RIP.
|
|
nah000
climber
no/w/here
|
|
brutal.
condolences to friends and family of the deceased.
and may those that were first on the scene, in time, find peace.
|
|
Gilroy
Social climber
Bolderado
|
|
Alton, I figured we'd hear stories from you after your trip but nothing like this. I had a day like yours once. I hope you and Julie hold each otter close and find some measure of peace and accommodation of such horrific events.
Sounds like there is a group of you in the Potrero seeking solace. It's never easy. Persistence furthers.
Keith
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
Wow, such sad madness. I cannot imagine the grief & wonderment of life you all must be feeling at the close climber's camp at EPC.
I climbed at EPC for ~3 weeks with the Atomizer, and although we were told that simul-rapping was the way to go, we tried that once then abandoned the technique for regular raps.
I've never tied knots at the end of my rap lines, it's just too time consuming to find both ends before each rap (silly, I suppose). But while rapping at EPC, I for the first time used an autobloc for most all rappels.
Be safe out there folks, and Joe, looking forward to the January Final Friday weekend!
|
|
BigBadWolfie
Trad climber
Durham, NC
|
|
anyone know who the 26-year-old climber from Austin was? I saw somewhere else it was someone from Arkansas. A good climbing friend of mine is from there and is worried it might be someone he knows.
|
|
Gilroy
Social climber
Bolderado
|
|
Every report I've seen so far refers to a climber from Arkansas, not Austin.
RIP
KG
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there say, to all of those that lost dear friends,
companions or family in these accidents, my condolences to you all...
i will surely keep you and their families in my prayers at this sad hard time... :(
|
|
altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
|
|
To clarify, the second climber was originally from Arkansas but had been living in Austin.
|
|
labrat
Trad climber
Auburn, CA
|
|
Sad news. My condolences to family, friends and the people who have had to deal with this. Be careful out there people.
Erik
|
|
altieboo
Social climber
Das Blase
|
|
Please refrain from commenting with any names of the fallen climbers. Families have requested that the names remain offline while loved ones are still being informed. Please respect these wishes.
|
|
R. Kelly Liggin
climber
Denver
|
|
"The justification for not tying knots in the end of rappel ropes doesn't make sense to me. Knots rarely get hung up with careful rope management and typically are easy to undo if they become stuck."
Patently, not even remotely close to true. Climb long (usually crack) routes for long enough and you will eventually epic because of stuck, knotted ropes. I have, and it sucks. Sucks enough that I won't tie knots anymore. Which has worked fine for me for more than 15 years.
Where you counsel careful rope management, I simply employ careful repelling.
It's not a technique I recommend for everyone. But posting grand, universal statements about how easy it all must be to get knots unstuck...
...it's not really helpful.
|
|
cindylou
Trad climber
Colorado
|
|
"Patently, not even remotely close to true. Climb long (usually crack) routes for long enough and you will eventually epic because of stuck, knotted ropes. I have, and it sucks. Sucks enough that I won't tie knots anymore. Which has worked fine for me for more than 15 years."
R Kelly, I completely disagree with you and wholeheartedly agree with Wallman. Knot the ends of your rope. 2 climbers are dead because they failed to knot the ends of their rope. This is such a sad, unnecessary loss of life.
The Rocky Mountain Rescue Group published a study in the Wilderness and Environmental Medicine Journal on 14 years of rock climbing accidents in Boulder County, Colorado. 20% of climbers rescued were involved in accidents where the belayer or rappeller lost control of the lowering or ran out of rope before reaching the ground.
I, too was in EPC when these accidents occurred and shared a wonderful conversation with the fallen climber from Austin prior to his accident.
Condolences and deepest sympathies to all.
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
I'd have to agree with avoiding generalizations.
The wisdom of knots on the end of rappel ropes varies considerably by rock / crag type and conditions. Great for tall, steep granite and sandstone faces in places like the Valley and Eldo, less so in other places like Red Rocks. Up here in the Gorge we can encounter stiff east winds which will blow ropes sideways and knots are not the way to go.
And rappelling pretty much sucks no matter how you look at it. Knots or not, being exceptionally cautious and double/triple checking everything before and [continuously] during a rappel is not unwarranted.
|
|
Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
|
|
Awful news, condolences to the families and friends.
As for the knot in the end of a rap line jamming, the rappeller is always above the knot so getting to it to clear it should never be an issue. There is really no excuse not to put a knot in a rope being rapped, unless you can see both ends on the ground
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
...the rappeller is always above the knot...
Except when they're not. Probably a better topic for a new and different thread...
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
When your number is up it doesn't matter whether you have a knot on the end of your rope or not.
It doesn't matter.
Your number comes up and you will be toast no matter what, SORRY......
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Aurora Colorado
|
|
The first accident, I think I understand. The second one, I don't. I noticed that the police were concerned that the body of the second victim was moved before they got there. One article said there was a loud noise like rockfall, maybe was the climber falling, who knows. But it wasn't clear from the articles that this second accident resulted from rapping off the end of the rope.
|
|
MisterE
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
|
|
I can't imagine what it would be like to be hit by a fallen climber while on lead.
What a terrible series of events at a place that has seen few deaths. Condolences to all family, friends and those there affected by this tragedy.
|
|
ruppell
climber
|
|
No sh!t Mr E.
That memory will be there for life.
Epcclimber
If you need to talk to someone do it. I've seen some pretty horrible things both climbing related and as a firefighter. I can tell you from first hand experience venting helps.
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Rappelling with knotted ropes piled in a rope bucket can eliminate the stuck knot problem, although it requires a bucket and time in preparation, but works well in the wind.
|
|
msiddens
Trad climber
|
|
so damn sad. I hope to get to EPC someday but the concept of a simul rappel has never been something I'd consider unless pushed to from risk of hazards such as weather.
My deepest condolences.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Simul-rapping might be fine when there are bomber anchors and great rope.
Obviously there are situations where it doesn't all fit. One person at a time hanging full weight from the anchor is enough for me. Thanks.
Climbing has been made up of "less than" situations from day one. Teaching anyone that simul-rap is standard fare is a disservice to us all.
|
|
Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
|
|
Why are you bringing up simul-rapping? It doesn't appear that either of these accidents had anything to do with that.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Because it has been brought up previously in this thread, regardless whether these accidents had it involved or not.
Sorry if it crossed your rap info threshold somehow.
|
|
newarkwildcat
Sport climber
Konstanz
|
|
|
Jan 13, 2015 - 05:27am PT
|
Why did the second person not learn out of the mistake???
|
|
Manny
Social climber
tempe
|
|
|
Jan 13, 2015 - 06:10am PT
|
Sad situation. I had a bi-colored rope with one end cut and a friend borrowed it while we were in EPC. I told her to be careful because it had been cut. While out, she loaned it to a third party without telling them. One of them fell 15' to the ground when they rapped on it. Lucky. Since then I've resolved to cut both ends of a bi-colored rope instead of only the damaged one. Thank goodness nobody had more than a harsh memory and some bruises.
I have rappelled with and without knots, mostly without. I have climbed Time Wave Zero and rapped safely off without knots. IMHO, it is the loss of vigilance that lead to this tragedy in the first incident. In my mind, that is the most dangerous error you could make when descending, whether you walk an exposed trail and fall or rap off your ropes, I believe this is the major factor in the first tragedy.
The second incident's cause is still unknown.
Until you are on flat ground, your life is at stake. RIP gentlemen.
|
|
k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
|
|
Jan 13, 2015 - 09:13am PT
|
Nice post Manny, thx.
Rappelling with knotted ropes piled in a rope bucket can eliminate the stuck knot problem, although it requires a bucket and time in preparation, but works well in the wind.
Actually, you do not need a rope bucket for this, just coil the rope and hang it in slings. One on each side does well.
When we were in EPC, this is exactly what we did on windy days. The walls have so much vegetation that can catch the ropes as the wind blows them hither and tither, we'd take the time to carefully coil the ropes before each rap.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jan 13, 2015 - 09:16am PT
|
Yes K-man
That's how it's done.
Just stack the rope and carry it with you as you rappel.
So simple so elementary.
Why people need a bucket?
|
|
Alpamayo
Trad climber
Davis, CA
|
|
|
Jan 13, 2015 - 09:36am PT
|
I have a bi-weave rope with one end cut. I used a rope marker to make a new middle mark. The middle mark is MUCH easier to see than the change in weave pattern.I'm not sure I'd be willing to cut both ends just to make the weave even. On a rope with no pattern/color change, I've made two fat marks (using the pre-existing mark) equal distant from the middle and a skinny mark right in the new middle. In my case there was not much rope cut off so it was easy to tell that there were multiple marks. Maybe confusing and not foolproof if I were to loan out a rope (something I have rarely done), but it has worked for me and I always tell my partners about it.
|
|
bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA/Boulder, CO
|
|
|
Jan 13, 2015 - 12:33pm PT
|
Some people advocate putting marks near the ends of your rope so you know when you are getting close to the ends. I don't agree with this. At least one accident that I know of happened because a climber thought one of those marks was the middle mark.
If you are going to mark your rope, I would suggest only marking the middle.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver, Colorado
|
|
|
Jan 13, 2015 - 01:41pm PT
|
I think you have to stop look and listen when you rappel, like they tell you to do when you cross the train tracks. Trouble is, once you've crossed those tracks a thousand times you stop believing trains are dangerous.
Gotta admit I don't tie knots in the ends of my ropes. I can easily imagine myself starting to pull the rope before I remembered to untie the knots. Once the knot is out of reach you have an issue. If it gets stuck in the rap anchor, you will probably need a rescue. Not as bad as rapping off the end but could be dangerous if you're on Baffin Island.
Cutting off one end of the rope so the middle mark is no longer the middle is asking for trouble. But not the root cause of the accident, which is not taking rappelling seriously enough. You need to pay extra attention when you're not tied in, particularly if you climb a lot and the exposure doesn't bother you.
* This actually amazes me about people spending extended periods of time in portaledges. Seems like the more time you spend there, the more likely you're going to drop one of your shoes, etc. It's so easy to forget what a strange place you're in.
|
|
Floyd Hayes
Trad climber
Hidden Valley Lake, CA
|
|
|
Jan 22, 2015 - 12:51pm PT
|
An easy way to avoid rappelling off the end of a rope and to avoid knots getting stuck is to simply tie the ends of the rope(s) into your harness.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 52 of total 52 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!