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healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 22, 2014 - 11:53pm PT
Washington is doing everything possible to promote a war with Russia and China to save the dollar, so we don't have to pay off the $20 trillion national debt......and under the misconception that it is possible to win a nuclear war...

Complete rubbish.
Greg Barnes

climber
Jul 23, 2014 - 10:00am PT
Only an idiot would believe any of these conspiracy theories. But you'd have to be a total fool to think Putin's government isn't doing all it can to monitor social media. Example: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28173513

If I had family in Russia, you can be damn sure I'd be here vehemently supporting all sorts of pro-Russia conspiracy theories.

I feel nothing but concern for the families of people proclaiming support for Putin.
Tvash

climber
Seattle
Jul 23, 2014 - 10:24am PT
I'm left wondering who has killed more people, Capitalists or Chiropractors?

TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jul 23, 2014 - 06:19pm PT
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/23/us-intelligence-evidence-russia-paul-craig-roberts/

US Intelligence: Russia Didn’t Do It

Paul Craig Roberts

After days of placing hostile blame for the downing of the Malaysian airliner on Russia, the White House permitted US intelligence officials to tell reporters that there is no evidence of the Russian government’s involvement.

Obviously, the US satellite photos do not support the Obama regime’s lies. If the White House had any evidence of Russian complicity, it would have released it to great fanfare days ago.

We are fortunate that the analytical side of the CIA, in contrast with the black ops side, retains analysts with integrity even after the purge of the agency ordered by Dick Cheney. Incensed that the CIA did not immediately fall in line with all of the Bush regime’s war lies, Cheney had the agency purged. The black ops side of the agency is a different story. Many believe that it should be defunded and abolished as this part of the CIA operates in violation of statutory US law.

Don’t hold your breath until Washington abolishes black-ops operations or the Obama regime apologizes to the Russian government for the unfounded accusations and insinuations leveled by the White House at Russia.

Despite this admission by US intelligence officials, the propaganda ministry is already at work to undermine the admission. The intelligence officials themselves claim that Russia is, perhaps, indirectly responsible, because Russia “created the conditions” that caused Kiev to attack the separatists.

In other words, Washington’s coup overseen by US State Department official Victoria Nuland, which overthrew an elected democratic Ukrainian government and brought extreme Russophobes into power in Kiev who attacked dissenting former Russian territories that were attached to Ukraine by Soviet communist party leaders when Russia and Ukraine were part of the same country, has no responsibility for the result.

Washington is innocent. Russia is guilty. End of story.

The day previously, State Department spokeswoman Marie Harf, one of the Obama regime’s brainless warmonger women, angrily turned on reporters who asked about the Russian government’s official denial of responsibility. Don’t you understand, she demanded, that what the US government says is credible and what the Russian government says is not credible!

Rest assured that the owners of the media and the editors of the reporters received calls and threats. I wouldn’t be surprised if the reporters have lost their jobs for doing their jobs.

There you have it. America’s free press. The American press is free to lie for the government, but mustn’t dare exercise any other freedom.

Washington will never permit official clarification of MH-17. Today (July 23) the BBC (the British Brainwashing Corporation) declared: “Whitehall sources say information has emerged that MH17 crash evidence was deliberated tampered with, as the plane’s black boxes arrive in the UK.”

After making this claim of tampered with black boxes, the BBC contradicted itself: “The Dutch Safety Board, which is leading the investigation, said ‘valid data’ had been downloaded from MH17’s cockpit voice recorder (CVR) which will be ‘further analyzed’. The board said: ‘The CVR was damaged but the memory module was intact. Furthermore no evidence or indications of manipulation of the CVR was found.’”

The BBC does not tell us how the black boxes are simultaneously in British and Dutch hands, or how they got into British and Dutch hands when the separatists gave the black boxes to the Malaysians with the guarantee that the black boxes would be turned over to the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) for expert and non-politicized examination.

So where are the black boxes? If the Malaysians gave them to the British, Whitehall will tell whatever lie Washington demands. If Washington’s British puppet actually has the black boxes, we will never know the truth. Judging from the hostile and unsupported accusations against Russia from the bought-and-paid-for Netherlands prime minister, we can expect the Dutch also to lie for Washington. Apparently, Washington has succeeded in removing the “investigation” from the ICAO’s hands and placing the investigation in the hands of its puppets.

The problem with writing columns based on Western news reports is that you have no idea of the veracity of the news reports.

From all appearances, the Obama regime intends to turn the “international investigation” into an indictment of Russia, and the Dutch seem to be lined up behind this corrupt use of the investigation. As the Washington Post story makes clear, there is no room in the investigation for any suspicion that Kiev and Washington might be responsible. http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/malaysia-flight-17-prosecution-faces-major-evidentiary-and-legal-obstacles/2014/07/22/a8c7ebe4-11db-11e4-98ee-daea85133bc9_story.html

By continuing to trust a corrupt West that is devoid of integrity and of good will toward Russia, the separatists and the Russian government have again set themselves up for vilification. Will they never learn?

As I write, more confusion is added to the story. It has just come across my screen that Reuters reports that Alexander Khodakovsky, “a powerful Ukrainian rebel leader has confirmed that pro-Russian separatists had an anti-aircraft missile of the type Washington says was used to shoot down the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 and it could have originated in Russia.” Reuters says that this separatist commander (or perhaps former commander as later in its report Reuters describes Khodakovsky as “a former head of the ‘Alpha’ anti-terrorism unit of the security service in Donetsk”) is in dispute with other commanders about the conduct of the war.

Khodakovsky makes clear that he doesn’t know which unit might have had the missile or from where it was fired. He makes it clear that he has no precise or real information. His theory is that the Ukrainian government tricked the separatists into firing the missile by launching airstrikes in the area over which the airliner was flying and by sending military jets to the vicinity of the airliner to create the appearance of military aircraft. Reuters quotes Khodakovsky, “”Even if there was a BUK, and even if the BUK was used, Ukraine did everything to ensure that a civilian aircraft was shot down”

Not knowing the nature of Khodakovsky’s dispute with other commanders or his motivation, it is difficult to assess the validity of his story, but his tale does explain why Ukrainian air control would route the Malaysian airliner over the combat area, a hitherto unexplained decision.

After the sensational part of its story, Reuters seems to back away a bit. Reuters quotes Khodakovsky saying that the separatist movement has different leaders and “our cooperation is somewhat conditional.” Khodakovsky then becomes uncertain as to whether the separatists did or did not have operational BUK missiles. According to Reuters, Khodakovsky “said none of the BUKs captured from Ukrainian forces were operational.” This implies that Russia provided the working missile to the separatists if such a missile existed.

I find the separatists’ reply convincing. If we have these missiles why to the fools in Kiev send aircraft to bomb us, and why is their bombing so successful? The separatists do have shoulder fired ground to air missiles of the kind that the US supplied to Afghanistan during the Soviet invasion. These missiles are only capable for low flying aircraft. They cannot reach 33,000 feet.

According to Reuters, the reporting of its story was by one person, the writing by a second, and the editing by a third. From my experience in journalism, this means that we don’t know whose story it is, how the story was changed, or what its reliability might be.

We can safely conclude that the obfuscations are just beginning, and like 9 /11 and John F. Kennedy’s assassination, there will be no alternative to individuals forming their own opinion from researching the evidence. The United States government will never come clean, and the British government and presstitute media will never stop telling lies for Washington.

Washington’s bribes and threats can produce whatever story Washington wants. Keep in mind that a totally corrupt White House, over the objections of its own intelligence agencies, sent the Secretary of State to the United Nations to lie to the world about Iraqi weapons of mass production that the White House knew did not exist. The consequences are that millions were killed, maimed, and displaced for no other reason than Washington’s lie and rising instability in the Middle East.

The Obama regime lied on the basis of concocted “evidence” that Assad had used chemical weapons against the Syrian people, thus crossing the “red line” that the White House had drawn, justifying a US military attack on the Syrian people. The Russian government exposed the fake evidence, and the British Parliament voted down any UK participation in the Obama regime’s attack on Syria. Left isolated, the Obama regime dared not assume the obvious role of war criminal.

Blocked in this way, the Obama regime financed and supplied outside jihadist militants to attack Syria, with the consequence that a radial ISIL is in the process of carving out a new Caliphate from parts of Iraq and Syria.

Keep in mind that both the George W. Bush and Obama regimes have also lied through their teeth about “Iranian nukes.”

The only possible conclusion is that a government that consistently lies is not believable.

Since the corrupt Clinton regime, American journalists have been forced by their bosses to lie for Washington. It is a hopeful sign that in their confrontation with Marie Harf some journalists found a bit of courage. Let’s hope it takes root and grows.

I do not think that the United States can recover from the damage inflicted by the neoconservatives who determined the policies of the Clinton, George W. Bush and Obama governments, but whenever we see signs of opposition to the massive lies and deceptions that define the US government in the 21st century, we should cheer and support those who confront the lies.

Our future, and that of the world, depend on it.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 24, 2014 - 11:41pm PT
According to Russian news agency, (state run; trust at your own risk) http://ria.ru/world/20140725/1017459906.html - English version ohttp://en.ria.ru/world/20140725/191242509/Ukrainian-Air-Defense-Exercises-Might-be-Behind-Malaysian.html-
sources in Ukrainian security claimed that MH17 was shot down by Ukrainian military by accident, during the training exercise. The squad is placed under arrest. 2 SU-25s were supposedly on reconnaissance mission and also used as practice targets. No launches were planned. The launch was performed from "Zaroshchens'ke, Donetsk Oblast, Ukraine" area (google maps recognize that place).

That is the position of the closest to the crash site launchers shown at the Russian sat images.

Ukrainian Prime minister resigned today (yesterday Ukraine time), by coincidence.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jul 25, 2014 - 06:01pm PT
http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/07/25/russia-humanity-future-paul-craig-roberts/


Does Russia (And Humanity) Have A Future?
Europe is complicit in its own demise

Paul Craig Roberts

The Russian government has finally realized that it has no Western “partners,” and is complaining bitterly about the propagandistic lies and disinformation issued without any evidence whatsoever against the Russian government by Washington, its European vassals, and presstitute media.

Perhaps the Russian government thought that only Iraq, Libya, Syria, China, and Edward Snowden would be subjected to Washington’s lies and demonization.

It was obvious enough that Russia would be next.

The Russian government and Europe need to look beyond Washington’s propaganda, because the reality is much worst.

NATO commander General Breedlove and Senate bill 2277 clearly indicate that Washington is organizing itself and Europe for war against Russia (see my previously posted column).

Europe is reluctant to agree with Washington to put Ukraine in NATO. Europeans understand that if Washington or its stooges in Kiev cause a war with Russia Europe will be the first casualty. Washington finds its vassals’ noncompliance tiresome. Remember Assistant Secretary of State Victoria Nuland’s “f*#k the EU.” And that is just what Washington is about to do.

The US Senate’s Russian Aggression Prevention Act, about which I reported in my previous column, does even more mischief than I reported. If the bill passes, which it likely will, Washington becomes empowered to bypass NATO and to grant the status of “allied nation” to Ukraine independently of NATO membership. By so doing, Washington can send troops to Ukraine and thereby commit NATO to a war with Russia.

Notice how quickly Washington escalated the orchestrated Ukrainian “crisis” without any evidence into “Russian aggression.” Overnight we have the NATO commander and US senators taking actions against “Russian aggression” of which no one has seen any evidence.

With Iraq, Libya, and Syria, Washington learned that Washington could act on the basis of baldfaced lies. No one, not Great Britain, not France, not Germany, not Italy, not the Netherlands, not Canada, not Australia, not Mexico, not New Zealand, not Israel, nor Japan, nor S. Korea, nor Taiwan, nor (substitute your selection) stepped forward to hold Washington accountable for its blatant lies and war crimes. The UN even accepted the package of blatant and obviously transparent lies that Colin Powell delivered to the UN. Everything Powell said had already been refuted by the UN’s own weapons inspectors. Yet the UN pussies gave the go-ahead for a devastating war.

The only conclusion is that all the whores were paid off. The whores can always count on Washington paying them off. For money the whores are selling out civilization to Washington’s war, which likely will be nuclear and terminate life on earth. The whores’ money will incinerate with them.

It is hardly surprising that Washington now targets Russia. The world has given Washington carte blanche to do as it pleases. We have now had three administrations of US war criminals welcomed and honored wherever the war criminals go. The other governments in the world continue to desire invitations to the White House as indications of their worth. To be received by war criminals has become the highest honor.

Even the president of China comes to Washington to receive acceptance by the Evil Empire.

The world did not notice Washington’s war crimes against Serbia and didn’t puke when Washington then put the Serbian president, who had tried to prevent his country from being torn apart by Washington, on trial as a war criminal.

The world has made no effort to hold Washington responsible for its destruction of Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and now Syria and Gaza. The world has not demanded that Washington stop murdering people in Pakistan and Yemen, countries with which Washington is not at war. The world looks the other way as Washington creates the US Africa Command. The world looks the other way as Washington sends deadly weapons to Israel with which to murder women and children in the Gaza Ghetto. Washington passes Senate and House Resolutions cheering on the Israeli murder of Palestinians.

Washington is accustomed to its free pass, granted by the world, to murder and to lie, and now is using it against Russia.

Russian President Putin’s bet that by responding to Washington’s aggression in Ukraine in a unprovocative and reasonable manner would demonstrate to Europe that Russia was not the source of the problem has not payed off. European countries are captive nations. They are incapable of thinking and acting for themselves. They bend to Washington’s will. Essentially, Europe is a nonentity that follows Washington’s orders.

If the Russian government hopes to prevent war with Washington, which is likely to be the final war for life on earth, the Russian government needs to act now and end the problem in Ukraine by accepting the separatist provinces’ request to be reunited with Russia. Once S.2277 passes, Russia cannot retrieve the situation without confronting militarily the US, because Ukraine will have been declared an American ally.

Putin’s bet was reasonable and responsible, but Europe has failed him. If Putin does not use Russian power to bring an end to the problem with which Washington has presented him in Ukraine while he still can, Washington’s next step will be to unleash its hundreds of NGOs inside Russia to denounce Putin as a traitor for abandoning the Russian populations in the former Russian provinces that Soviet leaders thoughtlessly attached to Ukraine.

The problem with being a leader is that you inherit festering problems left by previous leaders. Putin has the problems bequeathed by Yeltsin. Yeltsin was a disaster for Russia. Yeltsin was Washington’s puppet. It is not certain that Russia will survive Yeltsin’s mistakes.

If Washington has its way, Russia will survive only as an American puppet state.

In a previous column I described the article in Foreign Affairs, the journal of the Washington foreign policy community, that makes a case that the US has such strategic advantage over Russia at this time that a “window of opportunity” exists for the US to remove Russia as a restraint on US hegemony with a preemptive nuclear attack.

It is almost certain that Obama is being told that President John F. Kennedy had this window of opportunity and did not use it, and that Obama must not let the opportunity pass a second time.

As Stephen Starr explained in a guest column, there are no winners of nuclear war. Even if the US escapes retaliatory strikes, everyone will die regardless.

The view in Washington of the neoconservatives, who control the Obama regime, is that nuclear war is winnable. No expert opinion supports their assumption, but the neocons, not the experts, are in power,

The American people are out to lunch. They have no comprehension of their likely fate. Americans are an uninformed people distracted by their mounting personal and financial problems. If Europeans are aware, they have decided to live for the moment on Washington’s money.

What life is faced with is a drive for hegemony on the part of Washington and ignorant unconcern on the part of the rest of the world.

Americans, worked into a lather about Washington’s unfunded liabilities and the viability of their future Social Security pension, won’t be alive to collect it.
WBraun

climber
Jul 25, 2014 - 06:08pm PT
Paul Craig Roberts says -- "The American people are out to lunch."

They're stoopid brainwashed as sh!t!

They have no clue what's really going on.

The American press censors just about everything.

NYT, Wall St Journal, CNN and all the major media outlets are totally worthless garbage posing as truth.

There's nothing but criminals running everything .......
crankster

Trad climber
Jul 26, 2014 - 05:55am PT
The American press censors just about everything.

TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jul 26, 2014 - 11:23am PT
so the biggest news on the subject for weeks is that Yatsenyuk resigns as Ukraine's Premier after the coalition government dissolves over the issue that their training exercise gone wrong accidentally shot down the airliner...and the US media giants NBC, CBS, PBS, BBC all completely blank out on the subject...yeah, sure, 'no censorship'...
i'm gumby dammit

Sport climber
da ow
Jul 26, 2014 - 11:49am PT
Yeah I think I'm gonna go ahead and listen to Paul Roberts and dismiss everything else as biased. I mean he only used the word 'regime' 12 times in his article so he can't be biased.
vlani

Trad climber
mountain view, ca
Jul 26, 2014 - 10:14pm PT
'The training exercise gone wrong' is complete rubbish BTW. If Ukrainian military indeed shot down the plane - it was completely intentional. They may not known the correct target identity but they definitely were going after that plane. Position of the launcher that dangerously close to rebel controlled area is not meant to do training either. The words about two targets overlapping on the radar and causing it to switch the targets is complete BS. The soviet system designed in 1985 does not have flaws like that. It can perfectly safe for own planes handle the combat zone, cherry picking the foes. Normal combat application with command unit participation is completely automated - handling 8 target at the same time is a bit out the range of the human abilities.
SalNichols

Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
Jul 27, 2014 - 07:37am PT
Vlani is correct, to a point. One failure mode common to virtually ALL air defense systems is the "track swap", wherein two targets that pass within the same range and velocity gate exchange track ID. Could that have happened here? More likely is an autonomously operating TELAR launched on the first non friendly target that it detected and tracked. Intentional shot, accidental target.
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 29, 2014 - 05:59pm PT
TomCochrane posted
so the biggest news on the subject for weeks is that Yatsenyuk resigns as Ukraine's Premier after the coalition government dissolves over the issue that their training exercise gone wrong accidentally shot down the airliner...and the US media giants NBC, CBS, PBS, BBC all completely blank out on the subject...yeah, sure, 'no censorship'...

Censorship is when someone in authority tells you that you can't say something. The majority of American news outlets didn't cover it because Americans do not care about international news. By the way, an easy search of their websites revealed that the BCC, Bloomberg, FOX, the AP, NPR, Washington Post, the New York Times, and the LA Times all covered Yatsenyuk's resignation. You might want to actually bother looking before you make these kinds of broad assertions. Lastly, if you really think the "biggest news on the subject [of Ukraine] for weeks" is Yatsenyuk's resignation then you might want to reread the topic of this thread.
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jul 29, 2014 - 11:20pm PT
my comment refers to their public TV news broadcasts


obviously they are not my only sources of information


the bankster controlled media should be considered primarily as entertainment, not as reliable information sources...


at best they will tell you that something is happening, not reliably what is happening or its international importance and consequences



you underestimate the importance to this discussion of the resignation by a US puppet who was installed at great expense
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 29, 2014 - 11:52pm PT
Tom, I stopped reading your copied posts a long time ago. They are a waste of a lot of time to get to any point.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Jul 29, 2014 - 11:54pm PT
Once again, this was a tragic mistake. It will not ensure support of any side. And the area to any commercial companys should have been a VOLUNTARY NO FLY ZONE long ago. Do they really need "orders" to avoid a war Zone?

Lets see---as I recall, GW Bush declared an international War on Terror by the US. Are we not a war zone?
HighDesertDJ

Trad climber
Jul 30, 2014 - 08:03am PT
TomCochrane posted
you underestimate the importance to this discussion of the resignation by a US puppet who was installed at great expense

I'm not underestimating anything other than your ability to misplace motives.
crankster

Trad climber
Jul 30, 2014 - 08:18am PT
Didn't take Rifleman Ron long to return to past form...apology tour 2.0 coming soon.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 30, 2014 - 11:43am PT
as it illustrates well what you actually stand for
or.....blind and willing stupidity knows no bounds
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 30, 2014 - 11:46am PT
And now those crazy phuks have mined the area surrounding the crash site to keep the
investigators away; as if an investigation is really needed after that tacit admission of guilt.
Messages 261 - 280 of total 344 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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