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HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 30, 2014 - 12:38pm PT
If I were Obumbly, id be concentrating on that too
Well then, what's your plan?
For MH17?
For Ukraine?
For Gaza?
For Syria?
For Iraq?
For Afghanistan?

Good management requires you prioritize, assess short and long term risk vs benefits, make a plan and then find the money.
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Jul 30, 2014 - 12:48pm PT
Exactly, too bad Obama hasn't been doing that.

LA Times, aka 'That Pinko Rag':

Obama needs to work on his foreign policy, not his golf game
overwatch

climber
Jul 30, 2014 - 12:56pm PT
There is no doubt Putin could stomp Obamas' ass
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 30, 2014 - 01:22pm PT
Ron
largely I agree with you.

Unfortunately we can't entirely turn our backs on the "outside" world of Asia, Africa, Middle East, East Europe and Central America.

Strangely enough I think the most serious problem and possibly even the one we can help solve is Hamas vs Israel.
The majority of people on both sides want to live in peace with their neighbors. Unfortunately Hamas and Netanwhoowhoo prefer belligerence to negotiation.
A pox on both their houses. I mean specifically Hamas and Netanwhoowhoo, not Palestinians or Israelis in general.

Peace between Palestinians and Israelis would go a long way to reducing excuses for war all over the Middle East.
Obama/Clinton/Kerry have done an excellent job with Iran's nuclear capabilities. Although it ain't over till it's over. Although not dramatic saber rattling, our ability to wield cooperative economic power can have a potent effect.
WBraun

climber
Jul 30, 2014 - 01:33pm PT
Netanyahu is a total aszhole and the biggest criminal & terrorist on the planet.

The guy should be locked up forever and tried for international murder of humanity.

Obama and Putin can't stand this prick either nor can most sane people.

Netanyahu is a certified psychotic nutcase ......
overwatch

climber
Jul 30, 2014 - 01:36pm PT
Wasn't he Mossad before PM?
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 30, 2014 - 01:49pm PT
not Mossad, Sayeret Matkal
Special Forces in several of the wars. His older brother was killed in the Entebbe Raid.
John Duffield

Mountain climber
New York
Jul 30, 2014 - 01:57pm PT
. We stopped fighting Wars 70 some years ago.
Not quite so long. The draft ended in 1972. That's where we lost our ability to fight a conventional war.

I'd thought the payout wouldn't occur in my lifetime, but things are unraveling much faster now. One generation of exponential birthrate, has changed the landscape of the Muslim world.

So one day, we'll be faced with choices, such as watching the Islamic tide engulf Israel, or start nuking entirely around it. To protect some old stones.

Similarly our NATO obligations may drag us into a situation, we can't fight a conventional war, we're obliged to go Nuclear. And do the exact thing, we lambaste others for. Self righteousness is our only ally.
overwatch

climber
Jul 30, 2014 - 02:01pm PT
Good scoop HT, I knew it was something like that
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jul 30, 2014 - 04:00pm PT
http://www.globalresearch.ca/collapse-of-ukraine-government-prime-minister-yatsenyuk-resigns-amidst-pressures-exerted-by-the-imf/5393168

Global Research, July 24, 2014

Ukraine’s Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk announced his resignation in the Rada (Parliament) and that of the entire Cabinet on Thursday, July 24. This decision was taken following the withdrawal of two parties from the coalition government and the non-adoption of two important pieces of legislation, which had been demanded by the International Monetary Fund (IMF)

“I announce my resignation after the collapse of the coalition and the blocking of government initiatives …

“In connection with the breakup of the parliamentary coalition, as well as non-adoption of a number of important bills, I announce my resignation,”

The resignation of the Prime Minister signifies the collapse of the government and the resignation of the entire cabinet.

“But the cabinet members will continue fulfilling their duties until a new coalition is formed in the Rada.”

On July 24th, the Rada failed to support the government’s bill pertaining to the 2014 budget sequestration, which had been demanded by the IMF on behalf of Kiev’s external creditors. The disbursement by the IMF of the “Second Tranche” of a 17 billion dollar policy based loan was conditional upon the prior adoption of this legislation.

“The parliament must adopt amendments to the state budget needed to finance our army and also documents needed for cooperation with international financial institutions.[e.g. IMF, World Bank, EBRD]” said PM Yatsenyuk. (emphasis added)

The entire country is in an impasse. No money will be forthcoming from the IMF until this legislation is adopted. In the meantime, Ukraine remains on the blacklist of its external creditors.

Moreover, a controversial draft law on reforming the country’s gas transportation system was rejected (Itar-Tass, July 24, 2014).

Both bills were tied into the government’s negotiations with both the EU and the IMF.

What Happens Next?

The national economy is in crisis, the political structures of the country are in total disarray, all of which is occurring in the immediate wake of the Malaysian Airlines MH17 crash in Eastern Ukraine.

The two parties which left the coalition are The Neo-Nazi Svoboda party and the Centre Right Ukraine Democratic Alliance for Reform (UDAR) Party led by former champion boxer Vitali Klitschko.

President Poroshenko (left) has intimated that the resignation of the cabinet has paved the way for a process of meaningful political restructuring: “Society wants a full reset of state authorities,” said Mr Poroshenko.

What is implied by Poroshenko’s statement is that the parliamentary process is slated to become defunct inasmuch as Rada is obligated to adopt the legislation demanded by the IMF and the European Union. And if the Rada does not adopt the legislation, the composition of the Parliament will be changed through a process of outright political manipulation.

The 2014 budget project demanded by the IMF includes massive cuts in social spending coupled with increased allocations to the Armed Forces. Its adoption will contribute (virtually overnight) to a further process of the impoverishment of the Ukraine population.

The speaker of the Rada, Mr. Oleksandr Turchynov confirmed that the Ukraine Democratic Alliance for Reform (UDAR) and Svoboda (Freedom) would be invited to propose a candidate to occupy the post of interim Prime Minister.

So much for democracy: the leader of a Neo-Nazi formation Oleh Tyahnybok (Image right) will play a key role in the appointment of an interim Prime Minister to replace Mr. Yatsenyuk.

Parliamentary elections will only occur if the Rada fails to forge a new coalition government within the next 30 days:

The breakup of the coalition “was probably agreed on by political parties seeking elections and the president,” Yuriy Yakymenko, the head of political research at Kiev’s Razumkov Center, a non-governmental policy group, said by phone.

“Withdrawals from the coalition should not paralyze the parliament’s work,” Poroshenko said before Yatsenyuk announced his resignation.” (Business Week, July 24, 2014

Yatsenyuk intimated in his resignation speech that the State was bankrupt and that failure to abide by IMF demands would create social chaos:

“The fact is that today you failed to vote for the laws, and I have nothing (with which) to pay wages of policemen, doctors, teachers; nothing to buy a rifle with, nothing to fuel an armored personnel carrier with. Today you failed to take a decision to fill the gas storages to allow us to live through the winter, to at last free ourselves from dependence on Russian gas,” (Rada, July 24, 2014)

The IMF Program and the Interim Government

In the days following the Ukraine coup d’Etat of February 23, which led to the ousting of the duly elected president, Wall Street and the IMF–in liaison with the US Treasury and the European Commission in Brussels– had already set the stage for the imposition of the IMF’s “strong economic medicine”.

Following the installation of the interim coalition government, Prime Minister Arseny Yatsenyuk dismissed the need to even negotiate with the IMF. He called for an an unconditional acceptance of IMF shock therapy:

“We have no other choice but to accept the IMF offer”.

Yatsenyuk intimated that Ukraine will “accept whatever offer the IMF and the EU made” (voice of russia.com March 21, 2014, emphasis added)

In surrendering to the IMF at the outset of the interim government in March 2014, Yatsenyuk was fully aware that the proposed IMF-World Bank macro-economic reforms would brutally impoverish millions of people, including those who protested in Maidan against the Yanukovitch government.

The adoption of the more ruthless components of the IMF’s economic package requiring supportive legislation had been delayed until after the May 25 elections.

Cracking Down on the Party of Regions and the Communist Party

Meanwhile, the government is cracking down on the Ukraine Communist Party which is now illegal as well as on the Party of Regions, both of which were firmly opposed to the IMF policy reforms.

Ukraine as An Ally without NATO Status

In turn, the Ministry of Defense has raised the issue of direct US military support in the military campaign in Eastern Ukraine, where the Donbass militia have repealed the forces of the Kiev regime.

“The current situation testifies to clear Russian interference in Ukraine and its military support to terrorist groups active in Ukraine’s eastern regions… Right now, Ukraine’s armed forces need international support more than ever before”, said Deputy Defense Ihor Kabanenko to David Baldwin, commander of the California National Guard. (Kiev Post, July 24, 2014)

Commander Baldwin was in Kiev for high level consultations with the Ministry of Defense. In the course of his meetings with DeputyDefense Minister Ihor Kabanenko, Baldwin announced on behalf of the US government that:

“The United States of America is considering the possibility of granting Ukraine the status of an ally without membership in the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO).

… Baldwin said that the American side highly appreciates its cooperation with the Armed Forces of Ukraine and that it is ready to provide comprehensive support to them.

He stressed that a draft law on prevention of Russian aggression, adoption of which will allow Ukraine to obtain the status of an ally of the United States without NATO membership, is currently under consideration by the United States government.

… President Petro Poroshenko has asked the United States Congress to declare the self-proclaimed “People’s Republic of Luhansk” and “People’s Republic of Donetsk” as terrorist organizations and declare their members as terrorists.Poroshenko believes that when sanctions are not working, there are grounds for appeal to the United States Congress to grant Ukraine the special status of a major ally outside NATO (like Israel, Australia, and the Philippines) to enable it to solve its security problems. (Ukrainian News, July 24, 2014, emphasis added)

The granting of the “status of ally outside NATO” would set the stage for the possible deployment of US and NATO forces inside Ukraine in the context of joint military operations with the Ukraine Armed Forces and National Guard.


About the author: Prof Michel Chossudovsky
Michel Chossudovsky is an award-winning author, Professor of Economics (emeritus) at the University of Ottawa, Founder and Director of the Centre for Research on Globalization (CRG), Montreal and Editor of the globalresearch.ca website. He is the author of The Globalization of Poverty and The New World Order (2003) and America’s “War on Terrorism”(2005). His most recent book is entitled Towards a World War III Scenario: The Dangers of Nuclear War (2011). He is also a contributor to the Encyclopaedia Britannica. His writings have been published in more than twenty languages. He can be reached at crgeditor@yahoo.com
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jul 30, 2014 - 05:45pm PT
http://www.globalresearch.ca/german-pilot-speaks-out-shocking-analysis-of-the-shooting-down-of-malaysian-mh17/5394111


Revelations of German Pilot: Shocking Analysis of the “Shooting Down” of Malaysian MH17. “Aircraft Was Not Hit by a Missile”
By Peter Haisenko
Global Research, July 30, 2014
anderweltonline.com

Malaysia MH17
Zur deutschen Version bitte hier anklicken

-

The tragedy of Malaysian MH 017 continues to elude any light of clarity being cast over it.

The flight recorders are in England and are evaluated. What can come of it? Maybe more than you would assume.

Especially the voice recorder will be interesting when you look at the picture of a cockpit fragment. As an expert in aviation I closely looked at the images of the wreckage that are circulating on the Internet.

Peter Haisenko in Cockpit of Condor DC 10

First, I was amazed at how few photos can be found from the wreckage with Google. All are in low resolution, except one: The fragment of the cockpit below the window on the pilots side. This image, however, is shocking. In Washington, you can now hear views expressed of a “potentially tragic error / accident” regarding MH 017. Given this particular cockpit image it does not surprise me at all.

Entry and exit impact holes of projectiles in the cockpit area

Source for all photos: Internet

I recommend to click on the little picture to the left. You can download this photo as a PDF in good resolution. This is necessary, because that will allow you understand what I am describing here. The facts speak clear and loud and are beyond the realm of speculation: The cockpit shows traces of shelling! You can see the entry and exit holes. The edge of a portion of the holes is bent inwards. These are the smaller holes, round and clean, showing the entry points most likely that of a 30 millimeter caliber projectile. The edge of the other, the larger and slightly frayed exit holes showing shreds of metal pointing produced by the same caliber projectiles. Moreover, it is evident that at these exit holes of the outer layer of the double aluminum reinforced structure are shredded or bent – outwardly! Furthermore, minor cuts can be seen, all bent outward, which indicate that shrapnel had forcefully exited through the outer skin from the inside of the cockpit. The open rivets are are also bent outward.

In sifting through the available images one thing stands out: All wreckage of the sections behind the cockpit are largely intact, except for the fact that only fragments of the aircraft remained . Only the cockpit part shows these peculiar marks of destruction. This leaves the examiner with an important clue. This aircraft was not hit by a missile in the central portion. The destruction is limited to the cockpit area. Now you have to factor in that this part is constructed of specially reinforced material. This is on account of the nose of any aircraft having to withstand the impact of a large bird at high speeds. You can see in the photo, that in this area significantly stronger aluminum alloys were being installed than in the remainder of the outer skin of the fuselage. One remembers the crash of Pan Am over Lockerbie. It was a large segment of the cockpit that due to the special architecture survived the crash in one piece. In the case of flight MH 017 it becomes abundantly clear that there also an explosion took place inside the aircraft.

Tank destroying mix of ammunition

Bullet holes in the outer skin

So what could have happened? Russia recently published radar recordings, that confirm at least one Ukrainian SU 25 in close proximity to MH 017. This corresponds with the statement of the now missing Spanish controller ‘Carlos’ that has seen two Ukrainian fighter aircraft in the immediate vicinity of MH 017. If we now consider the armament of a typical SU 25 we learn this: It is equipped with a double-barreled 30-mm gun, type GSh-302 / AO-17A, equipped with: a 250 round magazine of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells (dum-dum), arranged in alternating order. The cockpit of the MH 017 has evidently been fired at from both sides: the entry and exit holes are found on the same fragment of it’s cockpit segment!

Now just consider what happens when a series of anti-tank incendiary shells and splinter-explosive shells hit the cockpit. These are after all designed to destroy a modern tank. The anti-tank incendiary shells partially traversed the cockpit and exited on the other side in a slightly deformed shape. (Aviation forensic experts could possibly find them on the ground presumably controlled by the Kiev Ukrainian military; the translator). After all, their impact is designed to penetrate the solid armor of a tank. Also, the splinter-explosive shells will, due to their numerous impacts too cause massive explosions inside the cockpit, since they are designed to do this. Given the rapid firing sequence of the GSh-302 cannon, it will cause a rapid succession of explosions within the cockpit area in a very short time. Remeber each of these is sufficient to destroy a tank.

What “mistake” was actually being committed – and by whom?

Graze on the wing

Because the interior of a commercial aircraft is a hermetically sealed pressurized chamber, the explosions will, in split second, increase the pressure inside the cabin to extreme levels or breaking point. An aircraft is not equipped for this, it will burst like a balloon. This explains a coherent scenario. The largely intact fragments of the rear sections broke in mid air at the weaker points of construction most likely under extreme internal air pressure. The images of the widely scattered field of debris and the brutally damaged segment of cockpit fit like hand in glove. Furthermore, a wing segment shows traces of a grazing shot, which in direct extension leads to the cockpit. Interestingly, I found that both the high-resolution photo of the fragment of bullet riddled cockpit as well as the segment of grazed wing have in the meantime disappeared from Google Images. One can find virtually no more pictures of the wreckage, except the well known smoking ruins.

If you listen to the voices from Washington now who speak of a “potentially tragic error / accident”, all that remains is the question of what might have been the nature of this “mistake” perpetrated here. I am not given to hover long in the realm of speculation, but would like to invite others to consider the following : The MH 017 looked similar in it’s tricolor design to that that of the Russian President’s plane. The plane with President Putin on board was at the same time ”near” Malaysia MH 017. In aviation circles “close” would be considered to be anywhere between 150 to 200 miles. Also, in this context we might consider the deposition of Ms. Tymoshenko, who wanted to shoot President Putin with a Kalashnikov.

But that this remains pure speculation. The shelling of the cockpit of air Malaysia MH 017, however, is definitely not speculation.
Braunini

Big Wall climber
cupertino
Jul 30, 2014 - 07:36pm PT
The draft ended in 1972. That's where we lost our ability to fight a conventional war.

LOL

I would love to hear the rationale behind this statement

HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 30, 2014 - 08:04pm PT
Su-25 max speed 606 mph
Boing 777 cruise speed 560 mph
SU-25 service ceiling 22,925 ft
Boeing 777 cruise altitude 33,000 ft.

SU-25's were after Putin but were too late and then 150 miles later had climbed 10,000 feet above their service ceiling, caught up with MH17 and got far enough ahead to shoot it forward of the wings?
strains the credulity.

SA-11 (Buk) range 22 miles and 72,000 feet at Mach 3

Ilyushin IL-76 (Ukraine still has 18 of them)
Max speed 560 MPH
Service ceiling: 43,000 feet. 33,000 feet would be a reasonable altitude for cruising if you believe your enemy has no modern high altitude SAMs.

According to defence analyst Reed Foster (from Jane's Information Group), the contour of the aluminium and the blistering of the paint around many of the holes on the aircraft fragments indicate that small pieces of high-velocity shrapnel entered the aircraft externally, a damage pattern indicative of an SA-11

Intent to shoot down Putin with an SU-25 using an air to air missile vs. radar operator mistaking an airliner at 33,000 feet for a Ukraine IL-76transport and whacking it with an SA-11?
Which scenario meets the common sense test?
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jul 30, 2014 - 08:16pm PT
i wasn't there, and neither were any of you...so how do we come to understand what happened except by searching for reports...

if you didn't like that one, check out this one:

http://nodisinfo.com/mh17/

The Crash of Malaysian Airlines MH17 is a Hoax

UPDATED: July 19, 2014, title change, July 20 with added commentary, Updated, again, July 23, 2014

How could the acclaimed crash of a Malaysian Airlines 777 over the skies of Ukraine be anything other than a false flag act, considering the date of the supposed event, July 17, the same day as the ground and tank invasion of the Gaza strip? Then, too, there is the issue of the date connection to TWA Flight 800, whose anniversary is on this very day which, in fact, was blown out of the sky most likely by a missile.

Video rewind: July 17, 1996: TWA Flight 800 crash

HLNtv.com
On July 17, 1996, TWA Flight 800 took off from New York’s JFK Airport en route to Paris. Just 12 minutes into the flight, the plane exploded over …

Plus, this is the maiden flight of MH17 – July 17, 1996, July 17, 2014, and Flight 17. That could be no coincidence.

Now, there were witnesses of this who described what they believed to be a mid-air explosion. Many such witnesses claimed seeing a missile aiming towards and then striking the jet.

Yet, what is seen regarding MH17? All that is seen is an explosion, not in the air but, rather, on the ground. It just so happened that certain individuals were in perfect position to capture that explosion or, rather, detonation. In this case a hovering helicopter is in place to document the image. It is not plausible that such a vehicle would be just in that position to do so.

Of note, now did the people who took this image possibly do so, unless they had advance knowledge?

If it got torn apart by a missile, how could it, then, explode on the ground in a fireball? The fuel is in the wings. The missile would have detonated that fuel, and the fire would have burned mainly in the air on the descent down.

Unlike Flight 800 there are no witnesses of fire in the sky, at least none that can be deemed as credible.With Malaysian Airlines MH17 all the fire that can be proven occurred without exception on the ground. Plus, that fire was set right next to the road, the road itself being clear of any char or debris.

In pics: Crashed MH17 Malaysian plane

It was a considerable fire-ball. Notice the char on the telephone pole.

In pics: Crashed MH17 Malaysian plane

The water trucks were there with the military conscripts ready to put out those fires, giving a relatively rapid response for the remote nature of the locality.

In pics: Crashed MH17 Malaysian plane

Surely, amongst all this charred rubble there would be major evidence of the nearly 300 passengers that were supposedly on this flight.

In pics: Crashed MH17 Malaysian plane

It just looks like a bunch of garbage was dumped into the region and set on fire. Note the two men walking away in the distance.

It was a sufficiently intensive fire to roast whatever this was into oblivion. Did the Israelis provide for this false flag act their Malaysian Airlines 777 that they had put in cold storage?

Where are those countless body parts? Where are the hundreds of charred corpses? The scene should be exceptionally macabre. Even so, there is imagery of corpses, this is not being denied. What is being disputed, though, is the official story that this jet was blown out of the sky by pro-Russian rebels.

In pics: Crashed MH17 Malaysian plane

Moreover, it all occurred not in some exceedingly remote area, randomly falling down, but, rather, right next to a road:

malaysianmh17hoax1

The occasional, random, that is strewn, wreckage is also found closely associated with roads. Yet, as a rule the road is free of any such large wreckage. In image upon image it is found that the wreckage is largely near the edge of the road.

malaysianairlineshoax332

Here it becomes categorically clear. The road is the conduit for the performance of this hoax. The plane was not shot down. It was ferried there and then blow up via detonation.

malaysianairlineshoax2332

Here is additional strewn wreckage. There can be no doubt about the fact that this was plopped there. A careful assessment demonstrates the fact that this jetliner component is sparkling clean and is free of all evidence of char or explosive damage. What is the man doing with his hand? Is he not punching out the windows?

Notice how the grass on the far right edge isn’t even pushed over from impact. This piece of plane component was simply dropped there manually. This does look like strewn wreckage.

The same is true of this plane section, once again being placed there purposely by agents of the arch-Zionist cabal:}~

In pics: Crashed MH17 Malaysian plane

Here is additional wreckage dropped right by the road. Yet, the road itself is essentially free of such debris – how convenient:

In pics: Crashed MH17 Malaysian plane

Oh, but there are people. Yet, is it so gruesome after all? Of note, there is what appears to be a body on the far edge of the wreckage, right screen.

In addition, the bodies of at least three individuals are seen:

They seem to be in relatively good condition. They are surely not blown apart. They fell 35,00 feet and in that good of shape? They do, though, appear to be real bodies of deceased individuals.

malaysianairliensmh17-3

How is it possible that these people could have survived the fire-ball without being roasted alive? Moreover, what are they doing just on the edge of the char line? Yet again, if the woman is dead, how could she be holding her arm up in the air. Yet, it is said:

Dozens of severely mutilated corpses could be seen strewn in the wreckage of flight MH17 that crashed Thursday in rebel-held eastern Ukraine but there were no signs of survivors, an AFP reporter at the scene said.

How about this for a pile of luggage? The captions read that it was gathered and piled there. How did it get placed there in such a convenient pile? There is no possibility that luggage could have survived in such a condition in the aftermath of such a missile struck plus fireball. Nor could it have fallen from the sky and still remain in such a state. It would have been scuffed and also dirty; there would have been stains. It could not have been in this condition:

Too, how is it that the wreckage or hard parts of the jet so charred, while the luggage and passports are pristine? This would indicate that, clearly, the luggage is also part of the staged act.

It is the passport grouping, though, that is proof of staging. This pile of passports is described as ‘passports found among the wreckage.’ That is impossible. They would not fall there together. Nor would they be in such a high-gloss, brand-new (and unused) condition. Nor would the stubs still be in them after going through a 35,000 foot free-fall. If those passports would have fallen out from 35,000 feet, the stubs would have been blown out.

This is absolute proof of the planting of fake evidence, which may be deemed “strewn passports and ticket stubs.”
malaysianairlinespassports

A physical impossibility, the state of these passports and stubs proves manipulation of the crime scene

The passports would be in people’s close possession, in their purses, coat pockets, pants pockets, and other. There is no way this can be real. The passport prop scene is absolute proof that the crash is a hoax and that, rather, this was a staged event, a plot by Zionist perpetrators.

Even so, the lies are great, like all Zionist-orchestrated frauds. According to AFP-based reports:

Debris was spread out for kilometres and the tail of a passenger jet lay in a corn field with the Malaysian Airlines insignia on it while insurgent fighters and several fire trucks were seen nearby the crash site.

Eyewitnesses told AFP that the jet appeared to explode in mid-air before wreckage rained down over a large area.

malaysianairlinesmh17hoax3

If it exploded in mid-air, then how could it have exploded on the ground also? Also, again, what is being asked, here, is why is the wreckage found so close to the edge of the road in the majority of instances, especially if this plane broke up in the sky from a missile strike?

The crisis actors have come to the fore to give an element of reality to the fake. Note the camera-persons strategically placed in the background. The man in the white shirt seems familiar. Was he also involved in the Malaysian MH370 hoax?

He’s angry. What’s he going to do, punch the ticket counter attendant? There are three or four people holding him back. This is mere drama. No one reacts in such a way when learning of the loss of a loved one.

There is a heavy camera presence with this man also. Note the fake hand-over-the-mouth sign.

The MH17 scam is a hoax perpetrated by the arch-Zionist cabal. The purpose is to distract world attention from the great treachery being committed by this murderous clique against the people of Palestine. It’s the talk of people’s minds, where the first bit of conversation will likely be, “Hey, did you hear about that plane crash in the Ukraine? Isn’t that terrible, 284 people dead?” Now, no one will consider the treachery committed by the Zionists, as they roast and murder chilren, teens, pregnant women, and more alive.

There is also a degree of agenda in relationship to the local politic of Ukraine.

Yet, Ukraine is a compliant Zionist enclave. It’s the ideal place to stage such a false flag act.

Sources:

http://ibnlive.in.com/photogallery/16373-7.html

http://therealsingapore.com/sites/default/files/field/image/531716754.jpg



so i realized years ago that when information leaks out that is supposed to be kept secret, the coverup consists of releasing multiple 'plausible' alternative stories...good luck on sorting out the truth...
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Jul 30, 2014 - 08:23pm PT
c'mon Tom
You're a pilot. Please explain how the SU-25 scenario could work?
I could take three minutes to calculate the closing speed but you've got a flight slide rule/calculator it will only take you 20 seconds.
The SU-25 is the Russian equivalent of our A10 Warthog. Low, slow, mean, nasty and you don't want to be it's ground target. Interceptor? not so much.

Ukraine does have SU-27 and Mig-29 air superiority/multirole planes. They definitely could catch and down an airliner at any altitude they liked.
But that's not the claim.

This statement is bogus:
why is the wreckage found so close to the edge of the road in the majority of instances, especially if this plane broke up in the sky from a missile strike
The wreckage is spread over 2 or3 miles. As are the bodies.
There's a relatively straight road along the wreckage path.

Even so, the lies are great, like all Zionist-orchestrated frauds.
WOW, Zionism too?
How about Putin/FSB frauds? Why isn't that likely?
Why do you think the rebels kept international observers out of the site for a week? What makes anyone think the current condition of the wreckage/bodies/belongings is anything like immediately after the crash?
If anyone had the means and opportunity to manipulate and obfuscate the site, it was the rebels and their FSB/Russian Army "trainers".

what venomous bunk
Bullwinkle

Boulder climber
Jul 30, 2014 - 08:29pm PT
Ahhhh, yes, it's the, Jews. . .
TGT

Social climber
So Cal
Jul 30, 2014 - 08:53pm PT
The JOOOOOSSS

did it!

LOL!
TomCochrane

Trad climber
Santa Cruz Mountains and Monterey Bay
Jul 30, 2014 - 09:02pm PT
well, to start off, i do not claim to know what happened here...just trying to make sense of things, like many here...


the one thing i am pretty sure about is that this whole situation stinks to high heavens with the truth being heavily manipulated...there's just too many aspects of the situation that don't add up to the story being pushed by Washington's propaganda mill


if that concept makes you uncomfortable, then just invoke the 'Conspiracy Theory' excuse to stop thinking


it is not unusual to fly a plane outside of it's performance envelope, and it is common to modify a plane to increase it's performance envelope

and you can temporarily bust the service ceiling by going into a dive to maximum speed and then using the momentum to climb well beyond where the engines can push you in level flight

for example i once made a skydive out of a piper cub that was flying several thousand feet above it's maximum operating ceiling

i am not an experienced military interception pilot, so don't have a good feel for the dynamics of such an intercept...however military fast movers can generally do maneuvers that many people couldn't imagine...

i am not very familiar with the Sukhoi Su-25, but i have flown a plane that could fly rings around it...not to mention approaching an airliner, which would be like a sport bike toying with a school bus on the freeway...

and what is the evidence as to what sort of interceptor aircraft was up there?

i really don't know, just trying to do my homework...
dirtbag

climber
Jul 30, 2014 - 09:13pm PT
The Crash of Malaysian Airlines MH17 is a Hoax


Oh for f*#k sake...


then just invoke the 'Conspiracy Theory' excuse to stop thinking

It seems to have worked for you...

klk

Trad climber
cali
Jul 30, 2014 - 09:14pm PT
Ahhhh, yes, it's the, Jews. . .

heh

only reason i posted in this train wreck for awhile was in hopes of heading off the inevitable links to the illuminati blogs.

but now i'm content to let nature take its course
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