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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 27, 2014 - 08:48am PT
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I used to enjoy looking at blank areas of rock and thinking they would be safe until superior beings evolved.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 08:53am PT
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if it's not all cracks, all bolts? Seems to be what you are saying...
Jammer,
on my lines at sport areas I carry only draws and entirely bolt the lines I choose to have no gear for my level of safety. Even in these areas I do not put bolts beside every crack as the likely hood of falling may be quite small when you can hang on with ease. I carry only draws.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 08:57am PT
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jammer,
which one?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 09:15am PT
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jammer,
taken from the now defunct style thread:
if all of Yosemite were bolted it would not be a great Sport Area. The rock texture there does not have the features that constitutes high quality sport moves. Plus we don't do no stinkin cracks.
We have our ideal turf and you have yours and most of the time they are quite different. Rock by its very nature does crack some of the expanses of the overhanging featured faces we choose to use. WE carry only draws so we inevitably end up placing bolts near cracks. These bolts do not prevent you from using gear.
Perhaps you traddies could tell us where you think your turf ends and our begins? Please come out and do our faces using only your gear.
So you are asking me about the turf[a given piece of turf?] that either tradsters or sport climbers could use totally within their own style?
Until someone starts using that kind of a cliff it would seem open to either way [both ways?] unless sanctioned otherwise by legal decree.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jun 27, 2014 - 09:24am PT
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Dingus, I already told you I defend your right to say and post whatever you want. You're not really good at listening to other people though. You're too busy figuring out what "smart" retort you'll post. My wife says I have two ears and one mouth because I should listen twice as much as I talk. It's good advice and made me a better human to take it. You might try it; it's actually really satisfying; it also encourages civil and respectful behavior and, by actually hearing what other people are saying, you learn a lot.
But, yes, say or post anything you want.
When you present arguments for your position, you will be more successful when you make them rational and sound, appeal to the listener's higher values, and don't insult them during your argument. Just sayin'.
You keep thinking that you're hurting my feelings. I don't get it. Do you feel empowered by the idea? Seem kind if weird to me.
Just to keep things on track here and to reiterate my opinion, I don't care what style people climb with other than the impact it has on public lands. What I see is that we as a group are edging toward being vandals of public lands and we could stand to put our house in order before someone does it for us. Besides, minimizing our impact is respectful of everyone else using said public lands; they are after all there for everyone to use and enjoy.
Oh, and hearing people out and being civil, respectful, and a gentleman/lady are strengths and, if anything, indicate character.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 09:42am PT
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jammer,
it is very easy to verbally create a situation[or imagine such a piece of rock [unused]] that is useful to both parties. Note I said useful but I did not say ideal. I do not care which way it goes. The people present can resolve that dilemma.
In my time and place the condition was such that no one was using any of it.
PS Some of route on the Tower have only a bolt or two and I have no desire to make them all bolts.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jun 27, 2014 - 09:50am PT
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DMT, nice post. Don't agree with every bit of it, but nice post.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 09:55am PT
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DMT,
we concur about 100% on these views. And I totally accept bolting a line that is less than vertical by top down. I tell my peers that you do these for 3 reasons:
1. When you get old you'll want some less steep climbs.
2. Your peers spouses may not come to the area unless there is something for them
3. You need some warm-ups.
3b. You haven't got out enough but would like to go thru the motions of climbing.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 10:00am PT
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jammer,
tell us you want to do and speaking for my part I can say it will be conserved--not modified. Other most likely will agree. Steve Roach has a 5" gear crack out there he has done. We think he wants it that way and no one has added any bolts. In generations to come I cannot say what they will do.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 27, 2014 - 10:09am PT
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 10:09am PT
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jammer,
it would seem that if the cliff is undeveloped and you get there first your soon to come workings would hold some precedent.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 10:10am PT
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Melissa,
what is "this?"
Part of the picture? Standing on one foot? wearing pink?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 10:15am PT
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Mark Force,
about civility: I often respond in like tone but only after being provoked. You escalate and I just may escalate.
There is a psychological condition such that what one despises in another he lacks in himself.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 27, 2014 - 10:15am PT
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I forget the name, and I'm not trying to make a point, but it was WTF enough when we saw it to take a pic. You couldn't have rolled your 3 year old down the slap at this point if you pushed them. IIRC it was an "approach pitch" to some steeper slab climbing in Valle, Norway. We generally liked the area which was developed almost single handedly buy a guy from Germany who developed routes with many different styles but, for the most part, tried to keep his "sectors" of style separate.
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 10:23am PT
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jammer,
BTW, you ever check out the scruffy little formations in prairies? Do you mean the Kennedy Ranch Rocks?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 10:26am PT
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Melissa,
the bolts never stood out. wrong context?
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pc
climber
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Jun 27, 2014 - 10:27am PT
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IMO
Leave no trace trumps climbing.
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Mark Force
Trad climber
Cave Creek, AZ
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Jun 27, 2014 - 10:28am PT
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Dingus, is having a different opinion than yours your definition of escalation?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 10:30am PT
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Mark Force,
What I see is that we as a group are edging toward being vandals of public lands
and can you name any particular group, thing or activity?
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Dingus McGee
Social climber
Laramie
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 27, 2014 - 10:34am PT
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PC
IMO
why not say Leaving No Trace trumps living on the Earth?
Get a global view!
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