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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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If you read their blogs, they're clearly not stupid, they're just way over their heads for a first passage, particularly when so much time (normally used for R&R) has to be devoted to parenting. I outlined six things that made me pause when reading their respective blogs:
First off, Force 5 winds are your standard tradewinds. They're no big deal. In fact, an HC36 needs 20 kts to get out of its own way. Their continued carping about Force 5 sounds dramatic, but its not. Its N O R M A L. Second, i know that things break out there, but you need to be able to fix them. The boat took on water when the engine was running? From where? Fix it. Slugs detach from the sail? Lash them back on with spectra like I've done. Third, he allowed his wife to suffer for four days before he remembered that they had some sturgeron. You take care of your crew before you tend to yourself. Fourth, I'd like to know why he was doing so much close reaching to get west. He could have made the ride a LOT more comfortable and likely faster by cracking off 10 degrees. Its easier on the boat and the crew. Fifth, having no passage making experience (this being his first), he completely underestimated the physical toll it takes on a shorthanded crew. That toll was greatly magnified by the parenting requirements of two infants. Basically, neither of them had any down time. An experienced captain would have known this. Sixth, you don't lose steering, and that lies in boat prep. But if you do, an HC with a balanced sailplan will sail in a straight line. He apparently didn't know how to do it, or how to jury rig emergency steering using a towed drogue etc. i've heard a lot being made about his USCG Captains License. Its a written test, my mother could pass it, and the sea time requirements can be exaggerated all to hell and gone doing nothing more than day sailing
I sailed my Baltic 37 to and from Hawaii two summers ago ('12). The trip home was shorthanded with some pretty snotty weather for 6 days straight. By the time we sailed out of that gale (from 149W to 129W) I was hallucinating from lack of sleep...so I have a fairly decent idea of the physical demands of an upwind ocean passage. Personally I think it was too much too soon to have included the kids, and that they would have been far better off to have met Eric in Tahiti and sailed the shorter passages with him once he had worked the kinks out with 2-3 experienced crew. Hindsight is 20/20, but by the time I took my own boat and crew, I had already done the trip three times on other boats, once as navigator on a racing yacht. I had a great apprenticeship. Eric subjected himself to OJT with his family as passengers and no mentor to speak of. That's a tough way to learn passage making.
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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Who decides where to draw the line? This fundamental issue was one of the conflicts between my ex wife and me.
Everyone draws the line in a different place, and who's to say who is right and who is wrong, if any of us are?
For the first 6 months of my first child's life, we never left the house as a group except for the pediatrician's office. Pretty close to literally. I did go out alone and do shopping trips and go to work and whatnot... but the idea of going to Yosemite to go camping was completely off the table because they didn't have a major hospital nearby in case something bad happened.
Heck, we couldn't even go to a restaurant... it was a big deal when I convinced her for a trip to Castle Rocks, sometimes around 6-9 months of age for my boy, and it was a total of a few hours away from the house, maybe 60 minutes out of the car near the main Castle Rock.
So from her perspective, all of you who would take a child to Yosemite seems just as irresponsible as all of you casting aspersions at the people out at sea. Is my ex crazy? Are you crazy? Am I crazy?
Certainly a lot of different ideas about how to live life, and last time I checked there isn't a manual I trust as being the single authoritative source that should dictate the flow of humanity. We all make our choices and live with the consequences. Parents are responsible for children and the consequences to them too.... Would you prefer a world where children were removed from parents at birth to ensure they were brought up in the correct pre-approved manner? If there is any democracy in deciding that utopia turned dystopia, I'm pretty sure a climbing and outdoor lifestyle wouldn't win any votes as the approved way to be.
I've already had to deal with this, having my life and parenting choices under a microscope and accountable to custody evaluators and judges and people who get to decide whether I am a suitable parent and worthy to raise the children that I made a heavy emotional investment to help bring into this world. In that battle, the person who lives in a cookie-cutter home in the perfect school district with the kids who play every sport and involved in every extra-curricular activity is the winner. The more you look like the stereotype of Keeping Up With the Joneses, the more you win. And enjoying nature, taking vacations where you don't plan your itinerary 6 months in advance with phone numbers where you can be reached at every moment, well that's not part of the generally accepted formula for being a good parent.
Of course, it's all from the perspective of being "in the child's best interest." According to whom?
Stones in glass houses....
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Sal-
Not a personal attack, but your review indicates they lacked experience for such a journey. Fair enough for adults to take on such an adventure, but to drag a one and three year old into it is STUPID.
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Chewybacca
Trad climber
Montana, Whitefish
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My main concern is that nobody injures their finger from waving it too vigorously at these people.
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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Johntp, I think that was my point. With their level of experience, those kids and their mother needed to be on Air NZ.
I feel for nutagain. We took our kid camping and climbing all the bloody time. He's made it to 34 even though we're long divorced. Now, if nutagain had wanted to drag his 1 y/o up the Nose...I'd probably say the same thing that I've said about the Kaufmans.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Yo nutagain, sounds like you've been through some hell. My philosophy raising kids was to keep doing what made me happy since that was their best chance at it themselves. Paid off with both my boys living the mountain life in Montana which makes for some great family reunions, stay true to your heart.
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overwatch
climber
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Yep that is a fine post, nutagain
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
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My philosophy raising kids was to keep doing what made me happy since that was their best chance at it themselves.
Big +1 to that brother. I ain't no robot factory churning out robots whose goal will be to churn out more robots.
Although the kids are at age now where they more clearly have their own senses of what makes them happy, and it's a balance of what makes them happy based on their limited experience of what's possible, and me pushing them toward new experiences that might expand their horizons or sense of possibilities in how they might want to live their lives.
One of the benefits I get from sticking to this forum over the years is the sense that I'm not a completely isolated whackjob for wanting to take the kids on camping adventures. Most of the kids' friends' parents can't remotely relate to the types of stuff I like to do. Their kids are mostly more concerned about what is the coolest new smartphone and ewww why would you go camping when you can stay in hotels?
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SalNichols
Big Wall climber
Richmond, CA
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Hey, my kid really liked Camp 4; but he LOVED room service at the Grand Hyatt in Crystal City. It was a carrot to get him to freaking study.
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Bad Climber
climber
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I hear ya, DMT, but trans-oceanic sailing on a 38 footer with a ONE YEAR OLD?! And only two of them to make it all happen? This is beyond irresponsible. It's downright stoooopid. I can see trying something like this when the kid is maybe 12 or so, big enough to really help out--strong, trained, ready to be part of the team, ABLE TO SWIM IF EVERYONE HAS TO BAIL! Now if you're fleeing an island beset by savages, blowing volcanoes, etc., then you do what you gotta do, but these stooges "volunteered" their one-year-old for this. Yeah, full-on, straight-up idiots.
BAd
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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There are things in life worse than death.
Like reading the blog about the "adventure"
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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Now if you're fleeing an island beset by savages, blowing volcanoes, etc., then you do what you gotta do
Bad, now that's funny!
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Bad seems to forget, they had their 3 year old with them to help
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Plenty of couples take kids on long sailing voyages. The biggest risk is the parents split up midway due to the stress. (plenty of couples without kids split too).
We know a couple whose child was born on Malta (in the Mediterranean). When Falcon (yes) was a few months old (conceived in the Indian Ocean) they continued their voyage, through the Mediterranean, across the Atlantic and the Caribbean, through the Canal up the coast of Central America.This was all on a 25 ft sailboat. Without a motor. We met them in the Sea of Cortez when Falcon was 2 and stayed in touch for several years.
To be fair, Pop was a very experienced ocean sailor, and Mum had become one since they had met in New Guinea. Last time we heard from them, Falcon was skippering an ocean racing yacht out of the West Indies.
While cruising in the South Pacific, my wife and I met several families with young kids out of the States. None of them had any serious problems with anyone's health. None of them had serious problems with their voyages. The kids were all well socialized and self reliant. It's a great way for kids to spend a few years of their lives.
The Kaufman family drew the short straw, that's all.
This family WAS adequately experienced, and prepared. I'm very familiar with their boat class, a Hans Christian 36. This is an excellent and proven around the world cruising yacht. All the experience and preparation in the world couldn't have foreseen the baby getting seriously ill.
Scheiss happens.
You can read the non-sensational facts of the story here:
http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2014-04-04
and here
http://www.latitude38.com/lectronic/lectronicday.lasso?date=2014-04-07#.U0SP515V-ec
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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climbers of all people shouldn't be throwing stones.
As someone pointed out upthread, the family car is about the most dangerous place you can put your baby. Or possibly on the back of your bicycle.
So many of those complaining here also gripe about the Nanny State.
You can't have it both ways.
None of the three federal agencies that helped rescue an ill 1-year-old girl and her family from their broken down sailboat about 900 miles off Mexico’s Pacific coast plan to seek reimbursement for the cost of the operation.
Officials from the Navy, Coast Guard and California Air National Guard said Tuesday they don’t charge for search-and-rescue missions.
“We don’t want people in trouble at sea to hesitate to call for help for fear they’ll be charged for assistance,” said Lt. Anna Dixon of the 11th Coast Guard District, which oversaw the operation but did not send vessels or aircraft to the stranded sailboat.
She said that helping at sea is a time-honored tradition and a requirement of international maritime convention. Chicago Sun Times
In My Not So Humble Opinion, based upon a year at sea in a 30 foot sailboat with just one other person, this family did nothing reckless.
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Charlie D.
Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
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HT speaks the truth!
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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And sometimes people put themselves into situations for which they are ill-prepared.
and sometimes people adventure into situations well prepared and momma nature is still the boss.
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micronut
Trad climber
Fresno/Clovis, ca
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Tough one here. Something to think about. Its interesting how so many that applaud(ed) Jim Herson's adventures with his little tykes seem so against this one. Yes, they're a bit different, but the concept is the same.
We're stoked and amazed when it all goes well (I absolutely love Herson's trip reports and they inspire me to get my kids out there young, and more often). But I cannot help but wonder what the response would have been here on Supertopo had Jim peeled off somehow inexplicably way up/out there, leaving a six or ten year old to be rescued.....let alone endure the nightmare of a dead or maimed dad on the end of a rope. Climbing is dangerous and I was knowingly putting my ten year old in harm's way last summer when we climbed Cathedral. I thought of this often when I was up there with my little guy, all runout with a storm on the way. Was I foolish....or being a great dad? Such a fine line sometimes.....
Just some thoughts.
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Sanskara
climber
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Awesome dad..
Life is dangerous, you could die and never have lived if you are always worried about being careful ;)
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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^^^
micronut; would you do a wall on Baffin with a one and three YO strapped to the haul bag? That is why I am conflicted on this one. It is one thing to introduce kids to adventure. But it just seems to me this was reckless due to the age of the children and lack of available support.
I would hardly call a 36' sailboat a yacht. Sure, it is seaworthy; but border line. A 36' boat in big seas is a gamble.
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