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Spider Savage
Mountain climber
The shaggy fringe of Los Angeles
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Sad how things of pleasure often cause erosion.
One day the pleasure is only a memory but bottle is needed to keep an even keel.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Survival's words....the good news and bad news about feelings are so right on.
And your words, "Waking up, I asked myself, why do I have to numb what I feel?" I hear you about your (fear of) static horizon's and eventually ripping giant holes in the mended mind." I really hear you.
But imho, we all project days, weeks, months and years in advance. We may only have today. Today is the only day you need to take care of. Been working on that since Dan died. My mantra has been, " A day at a time, one step at a time, with Peace, Patience and Perseverance." I'ts difficult to remember and challenging to carry out. But it works, this one day at a time stuff.
Five years ago I started over, Norweigan. I had to sort thru every aspect of my life....mentally, physically, psychologically, emotionally and spiritually... I had to find out who I really was, lynne by herself. Turned out I was not who I thought I was.
It's been a more than challenging, painful, fun, wonderful discovery. Had to get rid of a lot of stuff in my life I never wanted and embrace the things I'd always wanted but never allowed myself to enjoy.
Redefined relationships in a sometimes painful, but turned out for the good, positive way. Am a stronger person now, filled with much more joy, peace and love. I can wake up and embrace the day. Oh, I have not reached the goal line. So much more to flood my spirit with to wash it and make it like one of those crystal, clear untouched springs no one has ever discovered. But, like you, heading in the right direction.
The demons that say you'll lose creativity or become static lie. You have no idea of the beauty that lies in a clear soul and spirit.
I haven't expressed this very well, hope some of it makes sense. Above all, like the rest of us here I will be holding you in positive love and thoughts and prayers. lynnie
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MisterE
Social climber
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gettin rich. getting strong. getting sober.
The happiness quotient is missing.
Just sayin'.
Peace, Brother.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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You are so right, Mr. E. I was trying to say that but never quite got it spoken. One must be happy. Rich is highly over rated. Just be happy, love the ones you love and that love you, and be able to pay the ordinary life bills.
Even strong is not necessary. I've known people that aren't strong physically but embrace life and people and they are in turn embraced by them. lynnie
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Strong can mean many things. You know this Lynne. You are strong.
Sometimes list folks leave things out. Perhaps they are implied?
Let me know if you lean, Chuck. I can help hold.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say, norwegian...
sorry i can't stay long tonight and read more, as, i am babysitting and he gets up early, this little boy, :O
but--say...
keep this new trail... remember, NEW views, NEW inspiration and even NEW things to love, APPREAR on new trails...
some of the old trails, as inspriattional as they may have been, MAY have
had some pretty bad ruts that we slipped in far too much--the kinds of ruts
that added wrong pain to our trail...
now--with the new trail, new wisdom as to the ruts in the old trail, well:
this trail can 'fun ruts' instead--like neat times with your kids, and even your wife, being as you may have thought any neat funs had fizzled out, on that old trail (beloved though it was, IT had spots where you slid around in ruts that were only fun for you)...
many a man HAS seen the new adventure of new FOREIGN trails, trials thought they may be, as to 'getting the feel' for it all...
you can do it, IF you want to see the 'unexpected' and the new crisp views
of a freshness you have yet to enjoy!
keep it, and pray if you need to, god is willing to help forge that trail
with you...
:)
edit:
wow, norwegian, you are quite a dad...
i liked your mountain-talk, for your girls, a simple polite way...
kids are out there pushing bad at the door of these little girls
hearts, minds, and emotion, with LOT of ruination-talk,
you are strongly needed by these daughters...
you are being there... job well done...
just a bit of WHY your NEW trail, is well timed, for this time in your life...
you are here for GOOD reasons, norwegian...
but, as i said, you GOT to forge new trails, in the clear fresh direction
of non-poluted life...
(we have all seen what pollution has done to the earth ,no matter how much
mankind seems to see this as progress... it is the same with our body:
pollution in our ol' brain cells, as we try to function, well, look what it did, and does = non progress, as to flourishness in what counts for
being alive)
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micronut
Trad climber
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Any old fool can fall off the wagon.
It takes a real man to stay sober.
Stick with it man. Proud of you. May your eyes be open, your vision sharp and your heart clean on this new path.
Scott
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Right on Skully, thank you for reminding me about words different meanings. Smiles, lynnie
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Captain...or Skully
climber
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Right back atcha. Smiles are good, if they are true. All the way through.
You're true. Be all the way through.
Lynne edit: I can dig it.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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Skully, I never use the words smiles, peace, joy and love lightly. Mean every letter of them. Learned their meanings by living out my life. Cheers!
Oh yeah, I learned cheers from Bachar. He told me he meant it when he said it to people he posted here...he meant it even when he wasn't feeling it. Miss JB and DBL. Peace
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
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Atta Boy Weeg. It ain't easy but its so worth it. Alcohol is an incredible solvent. It can make anything dissolve. One is too many a thousand not enough. Alcohol is cunning and powerful. There is nothing that alcohol can't make worse.
Its really up to YOU, to decide whether your an alcoholic. You've probably got enough evidence if you are one. But if YOU want to quit, you have to admit to your inner self. Its not a joke or temporary thing. Its the real deal. And there is a ton of support.
I admire you for putting it out there. Thank you. Go for it. Commit to it like you do your awesome poetry, your family and that next move when your climbing. As for the wealth, strength and happiness; I'd take reality over them, anytime. It don't get no more real than sober. You'll see. If you haven't already. I wish you luck but it takes more than that to stay the course. Keep checking in Brother and hang in there. We'll be with you.
Welcome home!
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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or alcoholic encephalopathy
Jebus, Wernicke–Korsakoff syndrome (also called wet brain, Korsakoff's psychosis, alcoholic encephalopathy, Wernicke's disease). That's my Jennie. But she is stable, or stabilized, and the med pros are happy with her 'progress'.
I only drink on the odd occasion, and never in front of her. I lock any wine in a filing cabinet in the main (locked) shed.
Fortunately, Jennie did not suffer wet brain, more like foggy brain. Vitamin B1 (thiamine) is extremely important to our nervous systems and neurons/brain cells, and Co-Enzyme Q-10 has shown in several studies to help with foggy brain. In fact, the B complex vitamins are extremely important, I have done so much research on it I think that B*sh*t is coming out of my ears.
EDIT
When I first started dating Jen, my then editor, told me that his Aunt's family was ruined by an alcoholic father (his uncle by marriage). I didn't listen.
A colleague at the time, a very intelligent man but a hard alcoholic, told me that there is no such thing as a 'recovered' alcoholic, but 'recovering'.
Weeg, stay strong for your family and for yourself.
I live and I am in love with an alcoholic. It is a battle.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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The opening poem makes the sobriety gig seem temporary and resented. YOU have to want it. You have to finally get it through your thick head that you want your family more than you want the booze. Once you come to the realization that YOU really do want to be sober it is not so so hard...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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^^^^
it is not so so hard...
Tradmanclimbs, I sort of disagree. Alcohol is a strong neurotoxin. It is a tough drug to give up on. But of course, if one wants to really give up, one will, but it is a battle. I know you are not being flippant, but it really is not a matter of saying "No More", perhaps for some people.
But we are talking about a drug that the World Health Organization (WHO), in a report in 2011, says is the worst. Of 30 substances abused, the WHO report, which had two categories - the first the harm to the individual, the second category, the harm to society.
Guess what was number one in both categories.
For a recovering alcoholic, strength, belief and support are key, but yes, it is down to the individual. As one of Jennie's doctors say (to iterate): "Alcohol is sneaky, before you know it, it grabs you."
For many people, moderation is the key, but for the hardcore, total abstinence. I know there is the "Moderation Management" theory/program, but to reiterate: "Alcohol is sneaky, before you know it, it grabs you."
Norwegian, stay strong for your wife and daughters. And for yourself.
(BTW, nicotine is more addictive than heroin).
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Norwegian
Trad climber
the tip of god's middle finger
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 7, 2013 - 09:26am PT
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thank you much for the kind words, encouragement, hard-truths, and empathy.
im fine, still purging the toxins, probably.
so far i've noticed better sleep, and overall more energy, gee who woulda thunk?
i've amazing peers here on supertopo.
i credit my incredibly patient and forgiving wife for this oportunity to climb into hell.
forever? alcoholic. never again. permanent stasis.
i don't know folks. these and all absolutes are silly to me.
the moments beyond me own themselves,
i only visit their domain.
i will crawl in an out of them as necessary.
i've built a few things in my life: a home; skyscrapers; cabins; big dreams.
now i gotta build trust.
that shite is terrifying.
because it requires immediate accountability, and its foundation
is love and courage and other intangibles.
it's wobbly as hell,
there ain't no hard substance in it,
it dissolves without warning
and then magically re-materializes on it's own fleeting accord.
and im not sure that i believe in it.
happiness? eric.
right now im perched quite precariously on the threshold of sanity.
this position mandates of me an involuntary beauty, and
this beauty is a disgusting stab at survival -
happiness is temporarily suppressed
as the utility emotions rise thru my heart,
into my command center
and then scramble thru my ship out into the far reaches of my expressive limbs.
once again i thank each one of you for taking the time to read, process and respond to my self-invented plight.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Very cool to hear you feeling better and healthier.
Trust
Think about in the context of a belay. Some things are so fundamental that they have to be done right every time. It's close enough to being absolute as to not be worth considering in any other way.
Perhaps the lesson of the absolute is one worth considering. We all have things left to learn in life.
Some people, especially a lot of em in Kansas are too absolute. But it is also possible not to be absolute enough.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
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right now im perched quite precariously on the threshold of sanity.
OH, how I remember THAT feeling! I felt like I was walking a tightrope and even the very slightest bobble was going to twing me off and send me arcing off into...I don't KNOW where, but it was terrifying.
That lasted 2 or 3 days, for me. I have heard others describe it too, so it may be that you are having a normal reaction, scary as it feels.
For what it's worth, I spent my first week of not drinking, when I was at an AA meeting, introducing myself (when they asked if anyone is counting days) in this way: "Hi. I'm Terrie and I'm an alcoholic, but I don't know if I want to quite drinking. I have 3 (or1,2, 4,5, 6 etc.) days sober."
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
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Hey Weeg,
Its not forever dude. That's way to hard to wrap your head around. Its one day at a time. Some times its one minute, one breath, one heart beat. Drink tea with lots of honey. Stay busy.
They say that addiction is a disease. Its the only disease that will tell you that you don't have a disease. Talk about cunning. I believe my addiction is in my head and that alcohol triggers the obsession. Hell, I can be, have been, and probably are addicted to all kinds of things. But nothing takes you down like alcohol.
I prefer my Hawaiian shirt addiction or my climbing literature "collection". I can be cunning too. So its safer for me (and my family) to act out in these ways.
What do you really want out of life? Do you think that drinking will help materialize that. I don't know if you have a spiritual practice. Because that can help too. I really need to say that I did not quit drinking by myself nor have I stayed sober by myself. That's why its so great that your checking in here.
Hang in there bro
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H
Mountain climber
there and back again
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Ron I wish I could have "just one". I might be able to for a while. And I tried, but eventually would end up out of control or in jail; usually both. For someone who is an alcoholic/addict we can't afford to play around with it. I know I lost the control over alcohol long ago. This is really serious stuff for me. Drugs, and alcohol is a drug, have taken down many fine people I have known. I think that a normal drinker does not realize just how insidious it is. Although in this day its hard to believe that most people have not been touched by its havoc.
Life is just to sweet with out it.
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bergbryce
Mountain climber
California
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But if I recall, your past experiences with livin' dry were unpleasant, no?
Sobriety is more than just not partaking of a substance. Your soul is bruised and needs more than abstinence, flush bank accounts and exercise to heal.
Good luck to you.
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