Vote to end the ban on gays in the Boy Scouts right now!

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Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 5, 2013 - 09:00am PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jerry Sandusky & Penn State?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 5, 2013 - 09:12am PT
Just curious, how many here had a jr. high school coach who would sit at his desk and watch all the boys shower... you know, just to make sure you were getting everything clean? Or make you stand in a line and drop your pants, while he slowly walked by, making sure everyone had the proper equipment? If you didn't have a jock strap/cup, you stood there with your pants around your ankles while he lectured you about how bad it would hurt if he kicked you in the junk.

Complaints were made for years, but in the end there was nothing to worry about... he was a good member of "the church," which means Mormon in Utah, and even a scout leader. As far as I know, he never touched anyone... but it was creepy nevertheless.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Feb 5, 2013 - 10:55am PT
As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, is a psychiatric disorder described as exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (11 or younger).

The BSA are aged 11-18 (primarly postpubescent children).

So, child molestation would involve a minor (any age under 18).

Pedophilia involves a child under 12.

All pedophiles are child molesters, but the vast majority of child molesters are not pedophiles.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 5, 2013 - 11:46am PT
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th edition Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR) outlines specific criteria for use in the diagnosis of this disorder. These include the presence of sexually arousing fantasies, behaviors or urges that involve some kind of sexual activity with a prepubescent child (generally age 11 years or younger, though the diagnosis criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13) for six months or more, and that the subject has acted on these urges or suffers from distress as a result of having these feelings.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Feb 5, 2013 - 02:33pm PT
I think the perception by some that a gay troop leader is going to automatically assault your kid is totally wrong. My kids are not in the scouts but are heavily involved in youth athletics. I am sure they have had a gay coach along the way. So what ! It is my job as a parent to stay involved enough in my kids lives that I can determine if any of their coaches are creepy. In organized youth sports, I see measures in place to prevent children from being ALONE with a coach. Personally, I am more worried about the perv pedo than I am about whom the troop leader or coach chooses to sleep with at night. More and more often it seems that the dudes getting busted for molestation are sickos that are living their life being perceived as straight and are married, Sandusky for example.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Feb 5, 2013 - 02:37pm PT


Ban the Boyscouts...

Problem solved!!!...



Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Feb 5, 2013 - 02:41pm PT
Avoid this ST rig
Avoid this ST rig
Credit: Snowmassguy
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 5, 2013 - 03:42pm PT
As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, is a psychiatric disorder described as exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (11 or younger).

The BSA are aged 11-18 (primarly postpubescent children).

So, child molestation would involve a minor (any age under 18).

Pedophilia involves a child under 12.

All pedophiles are child molesters, but the vast majority of child molesters are not pedophiles.


You have the rationale of a liberal psycho....
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 5, 2013 - 03:50pm PT
Ah yes, discussing terms used in medical diagnoses is the trademark of a psycho. Go drink a beer or 12 and play with your guns you fuknard.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 5, 2013 - 03:58pm PT
Pisschrist, so you are going to side with someone who wants to delineate sexual perversion with kids under 18? One is a different kind of pervert than the other? Just based on being under 12?

Fine. You have proven to be the rotten soul I suspected of you.

Have fun, douche!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 5, 2013 - 04:38pm PT
I see, Blue.

You define aomeone who is gay having sex with a teenager as a pervert....but someone who is straight having sex with a teen as JUST FINE.

I guess you are part of that fine southern religious tradition of folks getting married to children of 12. Hoo-Yah.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 5, 2013 - 04:44pm PT
God blurring, you are such a fuking idiot!
More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Feb 5, 2013 - 06:53pm PT
I think the perception by some that a gay troop leader is going to automatically assault your kid is totally wrong.

Yeah, and I don't believe that there is much, if any correlation between gays and pedophiles.

The issue is with campouts. With gays there will be a small percentage of them that may come on to the boys in that setting...it's happened before and it's going to creep them out. As a leader it's much harder to keep track of all that in an outdoor situation... it's not a good mix.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 5, 2013 - 10:13pm PT
Speaking strictly of scout on scout action... I can see how it might be uncomfortable for a scout to have another scout hit on them. But probably no more uncomfortable than the countless times I was asked to praise Jesus and bless sh#t... or listen to how so and so felt their imaginary friend's hand pull them from the icey waters.

If you don't want to be around religious homophobic fuknards, BS may not be the place for you. Which is fine, as long as the ones that specifically exclude gays don't get special tax exempt status...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 5, 2013 - 11:25pm PT
The issue is with campouts. With gays there will be a small percentage of them that may come on to the boys in that setting...it's happened before and it's going to creep them out. As a leader it's much harder to keep track of all that in an outdoor situation... it's not a good mix.

WAIT A MINUTE!

The boy scouts prohibit scout leaders from being gay.

so how has "this happened before????????"

HOW?

Document what you say, or be seen as the poser that you are......
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 5, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
If you don't want to be around religious homophobic fuknards, BS may not be the place for you. Which is fine, as long as the ones that specifically exclude gays don't get special tax exempt status...

EXACTLY what this is all about. The Boy Scouts, the organization, is being increasingly isolated because of their national policy.

They seek to shed the national policy, and allow locals to make their own decision.

No national policy against gays. Neat, eh?

Guess how many locals will open up?
froodish

Social climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 6, 2013 - 12:51am PT
Perhaps germane to the topic: Chris Hitchens on Baden Powell

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/2004/06/hitchens.htm
More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Feb 6, 2013 - 06:48am PT
The issue is with campouts. With gays there will be a small percentage of them that may come on to the boys in that setting...it's happened before and it's going to creep them out. As a leader it's much harder to keep track of all that in an outdoor situation... it's not a good mix.

WAIT A MINUTE!

The boy scouts prohibit scout leaders from being gay.

so how has "this happened before????????"

HOW?

Document what you say, or be seen as the poser that you are......


Good question! I heard it as a comment on a local radio talk show by a caller and again on a local news blog...Deseret News.

The BSA isn't for everyone. Most of it's sponsors are Christian churches...so you'll likely get that element, but my experience as a scout and as a volunteer leader is that it's mostly positive. I've had kids years later thank me for all of the great, fun activities & campouts that they normally wouldn't have ever done. Scouting helped fuel my interest in climbing.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 6, 2013 - 10:54am PT
While I am troubled by the "Christian" foundation of scouting, and the common sponsorship of churches, I have no doubt that scouting has done many things very positive for many boys. Royal Robbins makes a very clear point of that in his autobiography.

A shame that it has this part of it that seems intolerant to me.
Ron Anderson

Trad climber
Soon to be Nipple suckling Liberal
Feb 6, 2013 - 10:58am PT
consider:



Impact on American life

Further information: Scouting in popular culture, List of Scouts, and List of Eagle Scouts (Boy Scouts of America)
Scouting and Boy Scouts are well-known throughout American culture. The term "Boy Scout" is used to generally describe someone who is earnest and honest, or who helps others cheerfully; it can also be used as a pejorative term for someone deemed to be overly idealistic.[86]
Prominent Americans in diverse walks of life, from moviemaker Steven Spielberg (who helped launch a merit badge in cinematography) to adventurer Steve Fossett to politicians, were BSA members as youths.[87][88] Over two-thirds of all astronauts have had some type of involvement in Scouting,[89] and eleven of the twelve men to walk on the Moon were Scouts, including Eagle Scouts Neil Armstrong and Charlie Duke.[90][91] The pinewood derby—a wood car racing event for Cub Scouts—has been declared "a celebrated rite of spring" and was named part of "America's 100 Best" by Reader's Digest.[92]
President Gerald Ford said, "I can say without hesitation, because of Scouting principles, I know I was a better athlete, I was a better naval officer, I was a better Congressman, and I was a better prepared President."[93]


Norman Rockwell's Beyond the Easel
Famed American illustrator Norman Rockwell's works were closely associated with the Boy Scouts of America for much of the 20th century.[94]:43 Beginning in 1913, Rockwell began illustrating covers of Boys' Life, the magazine for BSA youth. He also drew the organization's annual calendar illustrations between 1925 and 1976.[94]:89
In 1969, as a tribute to Norman Rockwell's 75th birthday, officials of Brown & Bigelow and the Boy Scouts of America asked Rockwell to pose in Beyond the Easel for a calendar illustration. As part of the U.S. Bicentennial celebrations in 1976, Rockwell's Scouting paintings toured the nation and were viewed by 280,000 people.[94]:155 In 2008, a twelve-city U.S. tour of Rockwell's works was scheduled.[95]
Alvin Townley wrote in Legacy of Honor about the large positive impact of Eagle Scouts in America. Townley cited such examples as how Scouts, especially Eagle Scouts, were disproportionately represented among Hurricane Katrina's volunteer relief workers; just as they are disproportionately represented among members of the United States Senate.[3]:152 Governor Rick Perry of Texas is an Eagle Scout who defended BSA policies and restrictions against ACLU criticisms in his book, On My Honor: Why the American Values of the Boy Scouts Are Worth Fighting For.[96]
Mark Mays, CEO of Clear Channel Communications, told a magazine interviewer in May 2008 that, "Particularly in the very impactful ages of youth 11 to 14 years old, when they can really go astray and you're taking the time to spend with them and focus on cultural core values like reverent, trustworthy, loyal, and helpful —all of those different things ... Scouting has a huge positive impact on boys and their lives, and that in turn positively impacts our communities and society as a whole."[97]
Mayor of New York City and business tycoon Michael Bloomberg, said that the BSA's Scout Law required of all Boy Scouts—a Scout is trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean, and reverent—are "all the American values ... Americans have quaintly simplistic ways and direct ways of phrasing things ... I think it's one of the great strengths of this country."[3]:116
Peter Applebome, an editor of The New York Times, wrote in 2003 of his experience as an adult participating with his son in Scouting activities, "I feel lucky to have had this unexpected vehicle to share my son's youth, to shape it, and to be shaped by it as well."[98] He concluded that, although Scouting is viewed by some as old-fashioned, "Scouting's core values ... are wonderful building blocks for a movement and a life. Scouting's genuinely egalitarian goals and instincts are more important now than they've ever been. It's one of the only things that kids do that's genuinely cooperative, not competitive."[98]:319–320
At the turn of the 20th century, Halloween had turned into a night of vandalism, with destruction of property and cruelty to animals and people.[99] Around 1912, the BSA, Boys Clubs and other neighborhood organizations came together to encourage a safe celebration that would end the destruction that had become so common on this night.[100]
The Boy Scouts of America are quite particular about how and when the Scout uniforms and insignia may be used in film and other portrayals; and for that reason, most films and television productions made in the U.S. utilize "ersatz" Scouting organizations. Examples of this include the "Order of the Straight Arrow", portrayed in the King of the Hill cartoon series, and the "Indian Guides" depicted in the 1995 Chevy Chase film, Man of the House. A notable exception to this policy is the final scene of The Sopranos television show, where Tony Soprano sits down to dinner in a restaurant. At another table, several Cub Scouts, in full uniform, are seated.
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