Vote to end the ban on gays in the Boy Scouts right now!

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Messages 221 - 240 of total 242 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
dirtbag

climber
Feb 5, 2013 - 08:36am PT
I just started reading this--the last few pages only, in fact--but +1000 for Ken's fact-based BS debunking.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Feb 5, 2013 - 10:31am PT
One would think that a perv ( gay or straight) would find their way to to the Boy Scouts regardless of what the public stance is. You see this with other youth organizations( youth sports) . How many times have you read about the youth coach being arrested for inappropriate behavior and more recently, female teachers/coaches having inappropriate relationships with underaged youth. Sad world we live in.
While reading about this debate, I read that men can be leaders of Girl Scout troops with the restriction that a FEMALE adult is also present. Personally, I think having a parent present regardless of the leaders sexual orientation or gender is probably a really good idea.
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:00pm PT
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Jerry Sandusky & Penn State?
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:12pm PT
Just curious, how many here had a jr. high school coach who would sit at his desk and watch all the boys shower... you know, just to make sure you were getting everything clean? Or make you stand in a line and drop your pants, while he slowly walked by, making sure everyone had the proper equipment? If you didn't have a jock strap/cup, you stood there with your pants around your ankles while he lectured you about how bad it would hurt if he kicked you in the junk.

Complaints were made for years, but in the end there was nothing to worry about... he was a good member of "the church," which means Mormon in Utah, and even a scout leader. As far as I know, he never touched anyone... but it was creepy nevertheless.
splitter

Trad climber
Cali Hodad, surfing the galactic plane ~:~
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:55pm PT
As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, is a psychiatric disorder described as exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (11 or younger).

The BSA are aged 11-18 (primarly postpubescent children).

So, child molestation would involve a minor (any age under 18).

Pedophilia involves a child under 12.

All pedophiles are child molesters, but the vast majority of child molesters are not pedophiles.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 5, 2013 - 02:46pm PT
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th edition Text Revision (DSM-IV-TR) outlines specific criteria for use in the diagnosis of this disorder. These include the presence of sexually arousing fantasies, behaviors or urges that involve some kind of sexual activity with a prepubescent child (generally age 11 years or younger, though the diagnosis criteria for the disorder extends the cut-off point for prepubescence to age 13) for six months or more, and that the subject has acted on these urges or suffers from distress as a result of having these feelings.
Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Feb 5, 2013 - 05:33pm PT
I think the perception by some that a gay troop leader is going to automatically assault your kid is totally wrong. My kids are not in the scouts but are heavily involved in youth athletics. I am sure they have had a gay coach along the way. So what ! It is my job as a parent to stay involved enough in my kids lives that I can determine if any of their coaches are creepy. In organized youth sports, I see measures in place to prevent children from being ALONE with a coach. Personally, I am more worried about the perv pedo than I am about whom the troop leader or coach chooses to sleep with at night. More and more often it seems that the dudes getting busted for molestation are sickos that are living their life being perceived as straight and are married, Sandusky for example.
locker

Social climber
state of Kumbaya...
Feb 5, 2013 - 05:37pm PT


Ban the Boyscouts...

Problem solved!!!...



Snowmassguy

Trad climber
Calirado
Feb 5, 2013 - 05:41pm PT
Avoid this ST rig
Avoid this ST rig
Credit: Snowmassguy
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 5, 2013 - 06:42pm PT
As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, is a psychiatric disorder described as exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children (11 or younger).

The BSA are aged 11-18 (primarly postpubescent children).

So, child molestation would involve a minor (any age under 18).

Pedophilia involves a child under 12.

All pedophiles are child molesters, but the vast majority of child molesters are not pedophiles.


You have the rationale of a liberal psycho....
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 5, 2013 - 06:50pm PT
Ah yes, discussing terms used in medical diagnoses is the trademark of a psycho. Go drink a beer or 12 and play with your guns you fuknard.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 5, 2013 - 06:58pm PT
Pisschrist, so you are going to side with someone who wants to delineate sexual perversion with kids under 18? One is a different kind of pervert than the other? Just based on being under 12?

Fine. You have proven to be the rotten soul I suspected of you.

Have fun, douche!
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 5, 2013 - 07:38pm PT
I see, Blue.

You define aomeone who is gay having sex with a teenager as a pervert....but someone who is straight having sex with a teen as JUST FINE.

I guess you are part of that fine southern religious tradition of folks getting married to children of 12. Hoo-Yah.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 5, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
God blurring, you are such a fuking idiot!
More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Feb 5, 2013 - 09:53pm PT
I think the perception by some that a gay troop leader is going to automatically assault your kid is totally wrong.

Yeah, and I don't believe that there is much, if any correlation between gays and pedophiles.

The issue is with campouts. With gays there will be a small percentage of them that may come on to the boys in that setting...it's happened before and it's going to creep them out. As a leader it's much harder to keep track of all that in an outdoor situation... it's not a good mix.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 6, 2013 - 01:13am PT
Speaking strictly of scout on scout action... I can see how it might be uncomfortable for a scout to have another scout hit on them. But probably no more uncomfortable than the countless times I was asked to praise Jesus and bless sh#t... or listen to how so and so felt their imaginary friend's hand pull them from the icey waters.

If you don't want to be around religious homophobic fuknards, BS may not be the place for you. Which is fine, as long as the ones that specifically exclude gays don't get special tax exempt status...
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 6, 2013 - 02:25am PT
The issue is with campouts. With gays there will be a small percentage of them that may come on to the boys in that setting...it's happened before and it's going to creep them out. As a leader it's much harder to keep track of all that in an outdoor situation... it's not a good mix.

WAIT A MINUTE!

The boy scouts prohibit scout leaders from being gay.

so how has "this happened before????????"

HOW?

Document what you say, or be seen as the poser that you are......
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 6, 2013 - 02:28am PT
If you don't want to be around religious homophobic fuknards, BS may not be the place for you. Which is fine, as long as the ones that specifically exclude gays don't get special tax exempt status...

EXACTLY what this is all about. The Boy Scouts, the organization, is being increasingly isolated because of their national policy.

They seek to shed the national policy, and allow locals to make their own decision.

No national policy against gays. Neat, eh?

Guess how many locals will open up?
froodish

Social climber
Portland, Oregon
Feb 6, 2013 - 03:51am PT
Perhaps germane to the topic: Chris Hitchens on Baden Powell

http://www.theatlantic.com/past/docs/issues/2004/06/hitchens.htm
More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Feb 6, 2013 - 09:48am PT
The issue is with campouts. With gays there will be a small percentage of them that may come on to the boys in that setting...it's happened before and it's going to creep them out. As a leader it's much harder to keep track of all that in an outdoor situation... it's not a good mix.

WAIT A MINUTE!

The boy scouts prohibit scout leaders from being gay.

so how has "this happened before????????"

HOW?

Document what you say, or be seen as the poser that you are......


Good question! I heard it as a comment on a local radio talk show by a caller and again on a local news blog...Deseret News.

The BSA isn't for everyone. Most of it's sponsors are Christian churches...so you'll likely get that element, but my experience as a scout and as a volunteer leader is that it's mostly positive. I've had kids years later thank me for all of the great, fun activities & campouts that they normally wouldn't have ever done. Scouting helped fuel my interest in climbing.
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