Vote to end the ban on gays in the Boy Scouts right now!

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More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:25am PT
"I Don't recall sexuality of any sort being much of an open issue as a scout. At least not from the program point of view. I don't recall a scoutmaster ever bringing up the issue in ANY manner."

Well the issue shouldn't be brought up, but just like the BSA doesn't join up with girl scouts, they don't want to deal with similar problems.

Hyper charged kids is enough of a handful!

Dave said:
If we can remove a few insults from the vernacular of children, I'm going to call that progress.

Good point, we actually do teach that.


climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:27am PT
Good behavior is expected of scouts. Name calling isn't condoned and didn't happen as much in the scouts as it did most other places. Oh we were definitely kids and stuff but basically we behaved better in general while participating.

For example we had a fat kid who got picked on in school a lot more than he did in scouts. Gym classes could be merciless on the non-athletic. But It wasn't cool to pick on a fellow scout.

With proper guidance if the issue did come up in a troop it should be the same.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:30am PT
It would be easier if the world were divided into two genders, different from each other but respectively consistent.

But God didn't make it that way.

That's right, GOD did not make the world the way we would like it to be.

He made us all different. Our neat, clean little model for society never really did fit His reality.

We can deal with it, or we can keep pretending.



GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:33am PT
If we can remove a few insults from the vernacular of children, I'm going to call that progress.


voodoo magic words like voodoo magic Gods...

From the experiences of the gay people I know

How big is that sample size again? 2 ex pastors?


I think hate against homosexuality is a learned trait, and it's learned all sorts of areas.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:34am PT
We all know God has nothing better to do than to worry if Adam chooses Steve over Eve.

I still find it disturbing Klimmer teaches science. No wonder America sucks in science.
Dave Kos

Social climber
Temecula
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:36am PT
voodoo magic words like voodoo magic Gods...

I like that James Bond movie with the voodoo guy.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:37am PT
I still find it disturbing Klimmer teaches science.

More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:39am PT
surely, you do not believe that being gay is a "choice" or consideration one makes?
that has been proven wrong a long time ago

Pretty much agree with you there, but I'll tell you, some parents will feel uncomfortable with a gay scout leader or scout.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:40am PT
^^^

No doubt about that.

Same holds true if they are black.

I'm all for a persons right to exclude themselves. I'm not all right with an organization making the choice for them.
More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:52am PT
Same holds true if they are black.

Not true, Apples & Oranges
QITNL

climber
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:19am PT
I was sort of curious about that myself.

http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_events/view/african-americans-boy-scout-movement

Mon, 1911-07-31

This date celebrates the founding of America’s first "Negro Boy Scout" troop in 1911. Initially started in Elizabeth City, North Carolina, opposition was encountered immediately, but troops continued to meet in increasing numbers. In 1916, the first official Boy Scout Council-promoted Negro Troop 75 began in Louisville, KY. By the next year, there were four official black troops in the area. By 1926, there were 248 all-black troops, with 4,923 black scouts and within ten years, there was only one Council in the entire South that refused to accept any black troops.

During this time as more troops started up, the Inter-racial Committee was established in January of 1927, with Stanley Harris as its leader. Also as part of the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) Inter-racial Service was "Program Outreach," a program that combined racial minorities with rural, poor, and handicapped boys. These programs were often ineffective, especially with immigrants who feared the BSA as a means to recruit for the Army. Another problem with Program Outreach was that it often didn't distinguish between the boys it viewed as "less chance" and those who were simply not white.

For example, the program's reports categorize some scouts as “Feeble-minded, Delinquency Areas, Orphanages, and Settlements." Many of the scouts in "Delinquent Areas" were blacks, who were measured as "Special Troops." Instead of embracing black Scouting, the BSA systematically categorized blacks, bringing a literal meaning to "racial handicap" as the color of their skin was why they were considered "special."

Scouting for minorities wasn't just confined to cities, Scouting in rural areas were also common. One of these programs was called "railroad scouting," where employees of the BSA would ride trains throughout the rural South, stopping at every town on the way to distribute information and encourage the formation of troops. This policy originated to cut down on railroad vandalism, and the BSA realized it was a great way to promote its organization. Native Americans were also a large portion of the minority Scouts, and lived in settlements in rural areas. With the help of these programs, the two Southern Regions, Region V in Memphis and Region VI in Atlanta, had growth rates of 28.2% and 47.9%, respectively. In 1937, 57.9% of black Scouts were from these two regions.


More at the link. I have no idea if it is true.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:23am PT
but I'll tell you, some parents will feel uncomfortable with a gay scout leader or scout.

but I'll tell you, some parents will feel uncomfortable with a black scout leader or scout.
-----



Both statements appear equally true to me.

I don't see what you mean by apples and oranges. ie that it's different somehow.

Studly

Trad climber
WA
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:25am PT
Scouting is not about sexual orientation, its about everything else. So if your sexuality becomes a issue in Boy Scouts, gay or hetero, then you're out of line. No way end the ban.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:27am PT
So why are they making it an issue? You are correct the BSA are way out of line.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:29am PT
On a serious note, the problem isn't gay scouts, but gay scout leaders. It's a recipe for abuse and pedophilia.

I don't trust most straight men with my kid on a camping trip. You want me to send him camping with a gay scout leader? Call me a homophobe, or whatever. It's common f*#king sense.

No, not all of them. But that's why they have the rules. To eliminate the possibility.


Blue...YOU are the problem. You are intent on keeping out people that have nothing to do with the crime committed. Why not keep out kangaroos? Just as effective.

You'll note that YOUR approach has been an abject failure. And the reason is obvious. You are targeting the wrong people.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:32am PT
Hey Ken! he could be on the right track.. perhaps if we banned all people out of the BSA then kids wouldn't be preyed upon in the BSA?

I'm pretty sure that would work.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:34am PT
As a former Scout myself, and father of a Life Scout, the concern I have is of gay Scoutmasters being Boy-Buggerers! No parent worth his or her salt will willingly send a child off to camp to be molested. Most youngsters haven't yet a clue about their own sexual orientations at the age in which Scouting begins. So...no...I will not vote for "allowing gays to be in scouts." It really isn't about the boys, is it?

Brokedown, that is EXACTLY what you are doing, because, through your lack of knowledge, you are NOT screening out the people you have to worry about.

Gays assaulting children is so rare, as to be a headline event. Virtually unknown.

But you don't bother to screen for the people you really need to worry about....pedophiles.

Why are intent on protecting pedophiles and supporting their attacks on children?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:36am PT
So...Climbski2...are YOU a parent? The business of being PC pales into insignificance to parents. I'm hopeful that someday a grandson of mine will become a Scout, and I really wouldn't appreciate a sexual predator as a Scoutmaster.

And yet.... you choose the PC position, based upon bias, wrong thinking, and a century of failed policy.

Your position INVITES a sexual predator as Scoutmaster. One wonders why you want that?
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:37am PT
Ken M, please don't confuse me with the homophobic dipshits here. I am absolutely NOT saying homosexuals molest children. Sorry if it came off that way.

I am saying people who have not developed a healthy sense of sexuality are more likely to molest children. I'm not sure how much you have dealt with Mormons, but they tend to have pretty twisted views on sexuality... especially homosexuality.

I am a firm believer that homosexuality is perfectly healthy, perfectly normal, and in no way predisposes anyone to child molestation. Religions that suppress natural sexual tendencies and retard sexual development are another story.


Point taken, sorry for the misunderstanding.

dirtbag

climber
Feb 5, 2013 - 08:36am PT
I just started reading this--the last few pages only, in fact--but +1000 for Ken's fact-based BS debunking.
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