Vote to end the ban on gays in the Boy Scouts right now!

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climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:15pm PT
Still don't see how this applies to the BSA.

Even less how it applies to putting a hell of a lot of pressure on organizations that are dead wrong.

This BSA policy is wrong and pretty stupid. I loved my time in the organization and I hate the idea of excluding someone from experiencing that simply due to sexual preference.

Indeed it seems to go against everything the BSA stands for.

The Oath

On my honor, I will do my best
To do my duty to God and my country and to obey the Scout Law;
To help other people at all times;
To keep myself physically strong, mentally awake and morally straight.

The Law

A Scout is:

Trustworthy,
Loyal,
Helpful,
Friendly,
Courteous,
Kind,
Obedient,
Cheerful,
Thrifty,
Brave,
Clean,
and Reverent.


And before anyone goes off on the religious part of the rules.. those are particularly the ones that in my mind forbid excluding gays more than any other.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:28pm PT
For some, religion is great, because they will never develop the tools to know what is moral behavior, so the 'shotgun blast' to morality that religion gives is better than hoping that this lemming is going to come to the right conclusions about life.

However for some... we need to learn the tools to live the best life, and the model offered by almost all religions isn't with the perspective of the entirety of the human race but limited by social and geographic reasons. Big physically strong Males wrote the holy books, Buddhists found some good ways through life but I feel the full spectrum that this existence has to offer is wonderful...

I'm glad I evolved and learned what it was that mattered, but MOST importantly what DOESN'T matter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaxrQAv1S38
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:38pm PT
Still don't see how this applies to the BSA.

last reply to this, but I try again to answer your last above question


this applies to the BSA because they are a "private" organization, and not a "public" one

as such, again, they have decided since they were started to not allow gays

and again, by our US laws, they have every right to do that

see how this applies to the BSA yet?

by the way, I am an Eagle scout and I loved my boy scouts experience
I also understand they are not a public organization and they can let in, and not let in,
anyone they want, I hope you understand this now, even though you and me both don't like it. In fact, I turned in my Eagle badge in protest some years ago when I heard of a new group of fellow Eagles that were doing so in protest, maybe just maybe did some good in causing the BSA to now reconsider their ban on non heterosexuals
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:38pm PT
Well that video pretty much covered it didn't it.

I'd add to that road thing. Don't try to close roads to others who may need them.

Psilocyborg

climber
Feb 4, 2013 - 11:54pm PT
i really liked that video too, thanks!
More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:05am PT
climbski: "morally straight."

Whether you like it or not, many churches that sponsor the BSA will interpret that statement differently than you. Having been a Scout Master, and having been on many campouts with scouts, the issue is not that obvious. Younger scouts...11-14 years of age, is not an age where kids want to deal with gay issues...it's gonna make them real uncomfortable. From the experiences of the gay people I know, they didn't even consider that they were gay until they were older than that. The boys just want to hike around, fish, rappel, cook their favorite meal, play capture the flag, earn merit badges etc.




climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:18am PT
I Don't recall sexuality of any sort being much of an issue as a scout. I don't recall a scoutmaster ever bringing up the issue in ANY manner. Like you said we were just busy working on stuff and doing cool things with our friends.

It really puzzles me why being gay would be any more disruptive an issue than being fat or a slow runner. Probably less so. Any disruption based on these types of things is commonly dealt with pretty well by any decent scoutmaster.

I suppose this is one reason the ban really bothers me. It seems to be making a major issue of an almost non-existant one.


GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:20am PT
It really puzzles me why being a gay boy scout leader

Openly... not a problem.


Deep in the closet... now we got some issues.
More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:25am PT
"I Don't recall sexuality of any sort being much of an open issue as a scout. At least not from the program point of view. I don't recall a scoutmaster ever bringing up the issue in ANY manner."

Well the issue shouldn't be brought up, but just like the BSA doesn't join up with girl scouts, they don't want to deal with similar problems.

Hyper charged kids is enough of a handful!

Dave said:
If we can remove a few insults from the vernacular of children, I'm going to call that progress.

Good point, we actually do teach that.


climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:27am PT
Good behavior is expected of scouts. Name calling isn't condoned and didn't happen as much in the scouts as it did most other places. Oh we were definitely kids and stuff but basically we behaved better in general while participating.

For example we had a fat kid who got picked on in school a lot more than he did in scouts. Gym classes could be merciless on the non-athletic. But It wasn't cool to pick on a fellow scout.

With proper guidance if the issue did come up in a troop it should be the same.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:33am PT
If we can remove a few insults from the vernacular of children, I'm going to call that progress.


voodoo magic words like voodoo magic Gods...

From the experiences of the gay people I know

How big is that sample size again? 2 ex pastors?


I think hate against homosexuality is a learned trait, and it's learned all sorts of areas.
dirtbag

climber
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:34am PT
We all know God has nothing better to do than to worry if Adam chooses Steve over Eve.

I still find it disturbing Klimmer teaches science. No wonder America sucks in science.
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:37am PT
I still find it disturbing Klimmer teaches science.

More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:39am PT
surely, you do not believe that being gay is a "choice" or consideration one makes?
that has been proven wrong a long time ago

Pretty much agree with you there, but I'll tell you, some parents will feel uncomfortable with a gay scout leader or scout.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:40am PT
^^^

No doubt about that.

Same holds true if they are black.

I'm all for a persons right to exclude themselves. I'm not all right with an organization making the choice for them.
More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Feb 5, 2013 - 12:52am PT
Same holds true if they are black.

Not true, Apples & Oranges
QITNL

climber
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:19am PT
I was sort of curious about that myself.

http://www.aaregistry.org/historic_events/view/african-americans-boy-scout-movement

Mon, 1911-07-31

This date celebrates the founding of America’s first "Negro Boy Scout" troop in 1911. Initially started in Elizabeth City, North Carolina, opposition was encountered immediately, but troops continued to meet in increasing numbers. In 1916, the first official Boy Scout Council-promoted Negro Troop 75 began in Louisville, KY. By the next year, there were four official black troops in the area. By 1926, there were 248 all-black troops, with 4,923 black scouts and within ten years, there was only one Council in the entire South that refused to accept any black troops.

During this time as more troops started up, the Inter-racial Committee was established in January of 1927, with Stanley Harris as its leader. Also as part of the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) Inter-racial Service was "Program Outreach," a program that combined racial minorities with rural, poor, and handicapped boys. These programs were often ineffective, especially with immigrants who feared the BSA as a means to recruit for the Army. Another problem with Program Outreach was that it often didn't distinguish between the boys it viewed as "less chance" and those who were simply not white.

For example, the program's reports categorize some scouts as “Feeble-minded, Delinquency Areas, Orphanages, and Settlements." Many of the scouts in "Delinquent Areas" were blacks, who were measured as "Special Troops." Instead of embracing black Scouting, the BSA systematically categorized blacks, bringing a literal meaning to "racial handicap" as the color of their skin was why they were considered "special."

Scouting for minorities wasn't just confined to cities, Scouting in rural areas were also common. One of these programs was called "railroad scouting," where employees of the BSA would ride trains throughout the rural South, stopping at every town on the way to distribute information and encourage the formation of troops. This policy originated to cut down on railroad vandalism, and the BSA realized it was a great way to promote its organization. Native Americans were also a large portion of the minority Scouts, and lived in settlements in rural areas. With the help of these programs, the two Southern Regions, Region V in Memphis and Region VI in Atlanta, had growth rates of 28.2% and 47.9%, respectively. In 1937, 57.9% of black Scouts were from these two regions.


More at the link. I have no idea if it is true.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:23am PT
but I'll tell you, some parents will feel uncomfortable with a gay scout leader or scout.

but I'll tell you, some parents will feel uncomfortable with a black scout leader or scout.
-----



Both statements appear equally true to me.

I don't see what you mean by apples and oranges. ie that it's different somehow.

Studly

Trad climber
WA
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:25am PT
Scouting is not about sexual orientation, its about everything else. So if your sexuality becomes a issue in Boy Scouts, gay or hetero, then you're out of line. No way end the ban.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 5, 2013 - 01:27am PT
So why are they making it an issue? You are correct the BSA are way out of line.
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