Vote to end the ban on gays in the Boy Scouts right now!

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Jennie

Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
Feb 4, 2013 - 01:13pm PT
I didn't claim the LDS have no influence. I said they don't dominate... in answer to Wes' suggestion



Nationally, Mormons do not dominate the BSA. BUT, if you are live in California (especially Sacramento) or Utah or Arizona the Mormon Church heavily dominates.

There is NO way you can argue that the Mormon church doesn't heavily influence BSA policy. Impossible.


The LDS population in California is less than 2%, Port. In Sacremento it's 3%. The Roman Catholic population outnumbers the LDS by more than five times in that city.

Perhaps you can educate me on how, with those small percentiles relative to the other Christian faiths who charter Boy Scout troops...not to mention units sponsored by civiuc and school groups...how the LDS have come to dominate the BSA in the Sacremento area.
Ken M

Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
Feb 4, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
usually with aggressively suppressed homosexual desires/curiosities, otherwise the victimization of little girls by trusted religious officials would be equally prevalent.


Unfortunately, research does not bear you out. When actual pedophiles have been tested, they are not aroused by males....or females. They are aroused by CHILDREN.

And virtually all of them live a heterosexual lifestyle.

So you are in the group that is for going after the people who have nothing to do with the problem.
bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 4, 2013 - 01:23pm PT
Next thing you know we'll let gays in the military!!! Oh wait...

On a serious note, the problem isn't gay scouts, but gay scout leaders. It's a recipe for abuse and pedophilia.

I don't trust most straight men with my kid on a camping trip. You want me to send him camping with a gay scout leader? Call me a homophobe, or whatever. It's common f*#king sense.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 4, 2013 - 01:37pm PT
Gay scoutmasters are not the problem either. Criminally minded predators are the problem.

Everyone has their sexual preferences. Does not make everyone a criminal. Except in some religious states.

The main thing that anyone who takes care of other peoples children should be careful about is avoiding being alone with a child if it can be helped. This protects The adults and the children. Has nothing to do with intentions it has to do with avoiding any appearance of any possible impropriety. It is smart policy even if it does cause some sadly necessary inconveniences.

bluering

Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
Feb 4, 2013 - 01:40pm PT
Gay scoutmasters are not the problem either. Criminally minded predators are the problem.


No, not all of them. But that's why they have the rules. To eliminate the possibility.

More Air

Trad climber
S.L.C.
Feb 4, 2013 - 07:14pm PT
"No, not all of them. But that's why they have the rules. To eliminate the possibility."

True...

To become an Eagle Scout, you must have at least 20 nights of camping. Kids are harder to watch on campouts, lots of things can happen...they're in their tents, or off on their own. That's why it's more complicated to have gay scouts or leaders. I think the BSA's current policy is similar to the same reason girl scouts don't join the boys on these campouts.
Anastasia

climber
Home
Feb 4, 2013 - 07:29pm PT
I totally agree. I have a few friends that are gay. Not even remotely worried about them being around my son. Then there are others. I have seen and met predators at the playgrounds and near the schools. We even had called the cops on one that was trying to interact with my niece and found out he had previous convictions, wasn't suppose to be even near a park, etc. The guy was seventeen years old with several convictions of child abuse with girls below the age of five. (Think on that.)

Long story short... You feel something is off with a person female or male or the babysitter isn't feeling like a solid choice to watch your kid... Trust those instincts. Missing a date/concert isn't a bad thing compared to living with the after effects of abuse, or the worst the death of your child.

I follow those instincts with teachers, doctors, scout masters, priest, relatives, etc. I have a story about that too. I hated my math teacher, demanded a transfer. Felt like he was greasy... Two years later, they caught him demanding sex for grades from a few 14 year old female students. He never did that to me but... I remember feeling wrong. (Strange that I was so right.)

AFS

damo62

Social climber
Brisbane
Feb 4, 2013 - 07:44pm PT
That's common f*#king NONsense Bluey, You are a homophobe!
Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 4, 2013 - 08:41pm PT
As a former Scout myself, and father of a Life Scout, the concern I have is of gay Scoutmasters being Boy-Buggerers! No parent worth his or her salt will willingly send a child off to camp to be molested. Most youngsters haven't yet a clue about their own sexual orientations at the age in which Scouting begins. So...no...I will not vote for "allowing gays to be in scouts." It really isn't about the boys, is it?
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 4, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
WOW... just.. really?

Was it this hard with slavery too?

In a way it's morbidly fascinating to see this historical process live.

You know the process whereby society goes from accepting evil as a necessity or even a virtue..

Too where even the racist KKK wouldn't do it. And it becomes a Felony


Same sh#t with Homosexuality.

Same day different century.. nothing new to see here.
SicMic

climber
two miles from Eldorado
Feb 4, 2013 - 08:52pm PT
Sorry to return to topic, but it's like Norton said a few pages ago. As a private org, the BSA can choose who to include within their ranks. This may be another instance where public opinion changes the status quo. While I would argue that public opinion is often right, I should point out that it is sometimes wrong.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 4, 2013 - 08:55pm PT
A private entity has no right to harmfully exclude people based on idiocy.

Try excluding any particular person with a specific skin color from your restaurant sometime. Well you might get by with it a few times if you are sneaky how you do it but a good chance that eventually the law will get you as it should.

Brokedownclimber

Trad climber
Douglas, WY
Feb 4, 2013 - 09:38pm PT
So...Climbski2...are YOU a parent? The business of being PC pales into insignificance to parents. I'm hopeful that someday a grandson of mine will become a Scout, and I really wouldn't appreciate a sexual predator as a Scoutmaster. This is really an issue involving parents, and not the general public as a whole. So..if you and your butthole buddy want to bugger one another, have at. I really don't givva schitt.
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 4, 2013 - 09:39pm PT
Ken M, please don't confuse me with the homophobic dipshits here. I am absolutely NOT saying homosexuals molest children. Sorry if it came off that way.

I am saying people who have not developed a healthy sense of sexuality are more likely to molest children. I'm not sure how much you have dealt with Mormons, but they tend to have pretty twisted views on sexuality... especially homosexuality.

I am a firm believer that homosexuality is perfectly healthy, perfectly normal, and in no way predisposes anyone to child molestation. Religions that suppress natural sexual tendencies and retard sexual development are another story.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 4, 2013 - 09:49pm PT
Has nothing to do with being PC. Anastasia nailed it in an above post. Predators exist of course and good parents don't fool themselves as to what one might look like or base their comfort on prejudice. Prejudice is blindness and blindness disables your ability to protect your children.

How dumb is your logic.. the boyscouts are safer because they ban gays? really..yeah that really protected all those kids from abuse.. cause I mean no predator would be a liar about it..

sickening discussion really on so many levels.

Oh and My butt buddies? I'll take that intended insult as an honor.. regardless what my preferences may be.

It's always an honor to be attacked standing up for what is right.
Klimmer

Mountain climber
San Diego
Feb 4, 2013 - 10:00pm PT
The Boy Scouts of America is a traditional faith based organization. Most are of the Judeo-Christian faith and world view. The Holy Bible calls homosexuality a sin. It's wrong. Sin is a pleasure for a short season as the Good Book says. G-d has judged cities due to their immorality. Think Sodom and Gomorrah. Both taken out with meteor impacts. G-d does indeed throw stones as judgement.

You are argueing with Hashem Adonai Elohim, not man. We are just pointing out the Holy scripture where G-d condemns this sin.


We Are the Boy Scouts of America: The Importance of Faith
http://www.scouting.org/filestore/doc/faith.doc


This will destroy The Boy Scouts of America and will completely undermine its faith based origin.

But isn't that really the agenda of the Gay Pride movement? To force the sin in the face of everyone who doesnt agree with their sin? With seared conscience and absolute defiance and false pride in the face of G-d?

Good luck on that. Judgement comith from the Lord. I'm just gonna step aside and pray for you and our country. I'm not going to stand in the way of sinners. We aren't supposed to. But I will tell you the road is washed out ahead that you are hell bent on racing toward and ends in a big cliff. You're choice to keep driving toward it with a seared conscience.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 4, 2013 - 10:08pm PT
Oh Klimmer I was a dead man the moment I was born.. I'm a sinner and have stopped pretending I could not be one a long time ago.

I do however try not to userb gods authority to judge my or anyone elses sins. But I'm sure I'm a hypocrit on that at times as well.

And how in the world does not allowing sinners in your church or organization constitute following Jesus'es example? That clearly is not biblical. Or for that matter even possible. Jesus even let Judas in his church. Assuming he knew what was gonna happen there it does seem to lend credence to the command to love your enemy.

That would be one hell of a small church now that I think about it... Like maybe one dead guy who is a ghost or something.
Norton

Social climber
the Wastelands
Feb 4, 2013 - 10:17pm PT
climb2ski said

A private entity has no right to harmfully exclude people based on idiocy.

Try excluding any particular person with a specific skin color from your restaurant sometime. Well you might get by with it a few times if you are sneaky how you do it but a good chance that eventually the law will get you as it should.

you are confused factually, and therefore your conclusion is wrong

a restaurant, if a PUBLIC one, cannot by Federal law "exclude" race, creed, color, sex, or national origin

a PRIVATE restaurant CAN "exclude" ANYONE for ANY REASON, including your "idiocy"

get the difference? private versus public?
GDavis

Social climber
SOL CAL
Feb 4, 2013 - 10:19pm PT
I am saying people who have not developed a healthy sense of sexuality are more likely to molest children

I am saying people who have not developed a healthy sense of sexuality are more likely to molest children

I am saying people who have not developed a healthy sense of sexuality are more likely to molest children


I would have RuPaul babysit my nephew before I let Michelle Bachmanns wife, ANY DAY.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Feb 4, 2013 - 10:20pm PT
No. Lol.. what is a private restaurant?

Has only one customer.. the owner(s)

SO unless the scouts only allow owners of the BSA to attend I don't see how they can consider themselves purely a private entity.

Regardless in the case of the BSA their policy is very morally wrong.

Like I said it is MORBIDLY interesting seeing the historical process of an accepted abomination become and unaccepted abomination.
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