18 murdered, dumped in portrero chico; climbers are fleeing

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Messages 341 - 360 of total 366 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 11, 2013 - 08:17pm PT
But if the US annexed Mexico and Canada, what would you guys do with all the enfranchised socialists and Mexicans ?

Send them to Texas?
Jebus H Bomz

climber
Peavine
Feb 11, 2013 - 08:20pm PT
Isn't that considered cruel and unusual punishment?
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 11, 2013 - 08:49pm PT
Isn't that considered cruel and unusual punishment?

For the Mexicans it would be.

So we won't require them to to go Texas.

We'll just offer free land to those who want to move there.

cuvvy

Sport climber
arkansas
Feb 11, 2013 - 09:04pm PT
New cave looks nice. Cartels probably too lazy to hike to the base there.
Then again, would be an easy place to dispose of peeps.
Have some fun down there. Be vigilant.
Still sticking local until we can afford to go to Greece or Thailand. Warm, inexpensive, and pretty darn safe(it appears)
Jonathon
Magic Ed

Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
Feb 11, 2013 - 10:02pm PT
What?? You didn't hear about those climbers who were attacked and beaten by a whole village in Peru for not handing over to them their passports?
Jim Brennan

Trad climber
Vancouver Canada
Feb 11, 2013 - 10:04pm PT
Finally !

Tell us what's going on Ed !
gallo

Big Wall climber
Feb 12, 2013 - 12:42am PT
Rock and ice staff.
Duane Raleigh:
Your article is very sensacionalist ( aka Tabloid).
you pick carefully a single incident and some general statistical data and rush to write this down out of context, inducing the reader to panic without a point of reference. of the real situation and most important:
DAMAGING THE IMAGE OF AN ENTIRE CLIMBING COMMUNITY.
I was last winter in Potrero for a couple of months and things haven't change much since my last visit.
In the last years there are at least a couple hundreds of climbers per season who stay for several weeks at the area without recalling a single notorious incident and the locals (the good and the bad ones) naturally knows who are all this foreing people.
I will notice that you must exercise common sense visiting potrero like you will do in some other out of states adventorous climbing areas like south america or even europe.
Acurate, sencible information is crucial to succed as a climber.
As a columnist of this magazine you owe to the readers a sound judgement
gallo

Big Wall climber
Feb 12, 2013 - 12:49am PT
TO THE ROCK AND ICE STAFF:
Im just simple a appalled to keep finding this article everywhere; and now to to find out how you decide to keep your posture and the way you present the the facts.
everything thath you stated about mexico in your answer to our posts is true.
IT IS THE WAY THAT YOU PRESENT THE FACTS THAT FALL ON THE SENSATIONALISM.
Again: there is a statistical disproportion of the real... situation in Potrero and the gross numbers (national averages) you are using to ilustrate your point.
As I said before YOU ARE DAMAGING WITH YOUR LACK OF ACCURACY THE IMAGE OF AN ENTIRE CLIMBING COMMUNITY FOR YEARS TO COME.
As a journalist you owe your readers and the People who open in the past their doors to you in potrero an accurate balanced information.

karodrinker

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Feb 12, 2013 - 12:58am PT
Gallo,

I can understand your point, but we are talking about chopped up humans here. Climbing is important, but not being chopped up is more important.
Magic Ed

Trad climber
Nuevo Leon, Mexico
Feb 12, 2013 - 10:58am PT
In spite of this incident everything here is tranquilo. I still feel as safe here as I would going to a movie theatre in Colorado.

Nobody panicked, nobody fled: climbers are still arriving and leaving by land and air. The weather is fabulous and there's lots of big new routes being bolted and climbed.
T H

Boulder climber
bouldering
Feb 12, 2013 - 12:29pm PT
I still feel as safe here as I would going to a movie theatre in Colorado.
That (un)safe?
AE

climber
Boulder, CO
Feb 13, 2013 - 11:10pm PT
Sometimes climbers don't seem so bright.
Guess who doesn't give a sh#t if you onsite 12d - or dress like a dirtbag - if you likely flew down to their turf, just to climb a lousy piece of stone, you, too, just might be . . . a gringo, de facto rich by any Mexican criteria. And practically worthy of torture and a bullet.
There is a universe of wrong-headed logic that will soon show up here, when people figure out too late that legalizing pot = streamlining the conduit for Cartels to fix the supply side. It will NOT solve the crime problem at all, just as it has NOT in Oregon, California, etc.
No easy answers, except on principle climbers need to be avoiding/boycotting that area; it will only be a matter of time before someone you actually know gets the machete treatment, and your buds certainly can't help you, or say you weren't given fair warning.
MisterE

Social climber
Feb 13, 2013 - 11:23pm PT
I still feel as safe here as I would going to a movie theatre in Colorado.

Now THAT was as succinct as it gets. Thanks, Ed.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Feb 14, 2013 - 08:48am PT
holyshootdude

Social climber
santacruz mountains
Feb 14, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
The most dangerous thing For westerners in Mexico is the heart of the Mexican people,I've been more in danger in Kentucky ,
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 14, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
zBrown, I just looked up Colombian statistics to see how they compare with what you have. At the height of the Pablo Escobar days in 1991, Medellin had 381 homicides per 100,000 habitants. Its dropped now, by 2009 it was down to about 100 per 100,000. However, that's just Medellin. Where we are in Apartado, it's a lot worse, with about 10% of the population murdered over the last two decades. However, the local statistics are just estimates since so many people just disappeared and were buried in mass graves.

holyshootdude, in Colombia the tourism ads say, "the only danger is that you won't want to leave." Could change it to say, "the main danger is that you'll just disappear."
Reilly

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 14, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
With all due respect I would take any statistics from S America with more
than a grain of salt. A lot more.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 14, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
The Colombian stats include reported murders. For each one, the person went to the police at least. That means its very likely true since it's a crime to make this stuff up. They are accurate in that respect, but many murders are not reported, since people fear the police, and for good reason. The numbers are generally underreported. However, with the war crimes tribunal going on, and the possibility of compensation for victims, people are coming forward. Anyway, I don't think its inaccurate to say that the murder rate was about 10 times higher than what they're seeing in Mexico.

By the way, the movie el Cartel de los Sapos was worth watching. For a shoot-em-up crime movie, it held my interest, mainly because its so accurate in depicting the Colombian culture. The word "sapo" means informant in Colombia (toad). Contrary to popular belief, these guys always rat each other out at every opportunity.
zBrown

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Feb 14, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
With all due respect I would take any statistics from S America with more
than a grain of salt. A lot more.


Yep. I'm not up to the task but a serial pass through the numbers, say from 2000 to 2012 would be an interesting exercise.

cliffmama

Trad climber
Gunks
Feb 15, 2013 - 12:49am PT
Hey ZBrown,
A friend told me I should read this thread because I'm about to leave for Potrero Chico, but I was surprised to see this photo in the thread. I took that photo - I'm the asian (but not Vietnamese) tourist with the camera so I'm not in the shot. Did you pull this from my blog at http://cliffmama.com/blog/missing-potrero-chico-mexico/

I realize my friends are concerned, but I have to admit that I'm getting tired of the daily notes from people saying "did you hear this? did you read about that? You're crazy! Too dangerous! Your children need you!" and making the assumption that I'm not going to survive my trip. Wish me well, think what you want and keep it to yourself, but please don't keep telling me I'm going to die, I think it's pretty rude. We're going to climb in the day, and lay low at night. Just like as with climbing, we analyze the situation, weigh the risks and choose our actions. This will be my 9th trip there. I'll be in the Mexican sunshine by lunchtime on Saturday.

I have never been to portrero chico and am not anticipating a trip nearfuturewise, so I poked around a little and did find some photographic evidence of Vietnamese tourists, alive no less.
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