18 murdered, dumped in portrero chico; climbers are fleeing


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Social climber
santacruz mountains
Feb 14, 2013 - 12:01pm PT
The most dangerous thing For westerners in Mexico is the heart of the Mexican people,I've been more in danger in Kentucky ,
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 14, 2013 - 02:00pm PT
zBrown, I just looked up Colombian statistics to see how they compare with what you have. At the height of the Pablo Escobar days in 1991, Medellin had 381 homicides per 100,000 habitants. Its dropped now, by 2009 it was down to about 100 per 100,000. However, that's just Medellin. Where we are in Apartado, it's a lot worse, with about 10% of the population murdered over the last two decades. However, the local statistics are just estimates since so many people just disappeared and were buried in mass graves.

holyshootdude, in Colombia the tourism ads say, "the only danger is that you won't want to leave." Could change it to say, "the main danger is that you'll just disappear."

Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
Feb 14, 2013 - 02:31pm PT
With all due respect I would take any statistics from S America with more
than a grain of salt. A lot more.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 14, 2013 - 03:32pm PT
The Colombian stats include reported murders. For each one, the person went to the police at least. That means its very likely true since it's a crime to make this stuff up. They are accurate in that respect, but many murders are not reported, since people fear the police, and for good reason. The numbers are generally underreported. However, with the war crimes tribunal going on, and the possibility of compensation for victims, people are coming forward. Anyway, I don't think its inaccurate to say that the murder rate was about 10 times higher than what they're seeing in Mexico.

By the way, the movie el Cartel de los Sapos was worth watching. For a shoot-em-up crime movie, it held my interest, mainly because its so accurate in depicting the Colombian culture. The word "sapo" means informant in Colombia (toad). Contrary to popular belief, these guys always rat each other out at every opportunity.

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Feb 14, 2013 - 03:45pm PT
With all due respect I would take any statistics from S America with more
than a grain of salt. A lot more.

Yep. I'm not up to the task but a serial pass through the numbers, say from 2000 to 2012 would be an interesting exercise.


Trad climber
Feb 15, 2013 - 12:49am PT
Hey ZBrown,
A friend told me I should read this thread because I'm about to leave for Potrero Chico, but I was surprised to see this photo in the thread. I took that photo - I'm the asian (but not Vietnamese) tourist with the camera so I'm not in the shot. Did you pull this from my blog at http://cliffmama.com/blog/missing-potrero-chico-mexico/

I realize my friends are concerned, but I have to admit that I'm getting tired of the daily notes from people saying "did you hear this? did you read about that? You're crazy! Too dangerous! Your children need you!" and making the assumption that I'm not going to survive my trip. Wish me well, think what you want and keep it to yourself, but please don't keep telling me I'm going to die, I think it's pretty rude. We're going to climb in the day, and lay low at night. Just like as with climbing, we analyze the situation, weigh the risks and choose our actions. This will be my 9th trip there. I'll be in the Mexican sunshine by lunchtime on Saturday.

I have never been to portrero chico and am not anticipating a trip nearfuturewise, so I poked around a little and did find some photographic evidence of Vietnamese tourists, alive no less.

Boulder climber
Feb 15, 2013 - 01:05am PT
Jebus H Bomz

Feb 15, 2013 - 10:08am PT
I recognized at least one person from cliffmama's blog. Those Canucks love the Potrero.

Is it sensational to mention some disturbing activities going on down there? I don't know. I know that many of the articles on mass murder that have been posted here and that don't get a whiff of airtime up here in the states have opened my eyes more to the realities of the absolute tragedy perpetrated in Mexico.

Then again, Honnold's blast of a trip down there is getting sensationalized too by the same vindictive climbing media outlets. It looks like he's having a great trip!

Is it hubris to wander around the Posada while invoking the mantra that only those without common sense will get hurt? Or is it a worse crime to sit safe in on the sofa while casting aspersions?

I'd go down there again, it's a blast, but, somehow, I'd feel hesitant about bringing loved ones to an area that so recently saw such an atrocity. As much as downing the tourist economy down there hurts them, it's also callous to minimize what happened to those musicians who happened to step on the dick of some gangsters.
pelut espania

Big Wall climber
Feb 22, 2013 - 03:24pm PT
" They are Mexicanos and not the cultured Spanish gentlemans"

That is f*#king hilarious...the same spanish that wiped out most natives in the Americas without blinking an eye.

Amigo! American Dogs did the Mexican wrongs not the gentlemans of Espania! tu loco man! We are gentlemans and love all peoples. Viva Espania!

Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Feb 23, 2013 - 09:56am PT
Nuevo Laredo

May, 2012 - grafico


now the cheif of police has disappeared and his two brothers have been found dead


Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 23, 2013 - 12:44pm PT
Zbrown's link:


Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
Feb 25, 2013 - 10:26pm PT
yes cliffmama - I found the photo on your blog and hot linked to it

i hope you're not offended in any way

on second viewing not many of those pictured appear to be Vietnamese

is it dangerous in Mexico? - statistically definitely

is it too dangerous to visit and/or climb at Portero chico? Probably not.

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