help climbers visciously attacked in Peru

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Messages 921 - 940 of total 974 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
QITNL

climber
Feb 8, 2013 - 03:30pm PT
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Feb 8, 2013 - 03:53pm PT


All that matters is the truth of the situation and the truth of the details!
You don't even have to know what they are lying about - the sister tells us enough with her own words for us to know that the way they depict their victimization is simply not true.

I think Riley nailed this discussion
Al_Smith

climber
San Francisco, CA
Feb 8, 2013 - 04:23pm PT
I've been trying to avoid this whole thread (especially taking a stance on what did or did not happen) as I like to visit Supertopo to give and receive climbing advice, read PellucidWombat's completely fabulous TRs, etc.

That said, I just have to say that the thing that pisses me off most about this saga and the Wolfrom's account of it, is the part where they state that they were whipped with ropes and tortured.

The original rock throwing, bear spray spraying, barricade building hysterics may have happened in a gigantic misunderstanding (or worse.) Claiming to have been tortured through the night (other than psychologically as it relates to their fear of being killed or the like) is pretty f'in serious.

They have nothing to prove to me or anyone else, and I feel sorry for them in so much as they are obviously injured and had a trip ruined. I also feel bad for the Peruvians who rely on the tourist industry to earn a living who may see diminished revenues as a result of the media hubbub surrounding this.

But again, if you claim you have been tortured but are able to write/blog about it just days after, then I've got some serious questions about your credibility.

Here's hoping the truth comes out or that this all goes away very, very soon.

Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Feb 8, 2013 - 04:59pm PT
I also feel bad for the Peruvians who rely on the tourist industry to earn a living who may see diminished revenues as a result of the media hubbub surrounding this.

The climbers are promoting it for fundraising purposes. Someone should ask them if they think they're damaging the tourist industry there, at the upcoming black tie event in Jackson Hole.
Gerg

Trad climber
Calgary
Feb 8, 2013 - 05:00pm PT
The pictures say nothing confirming OR denying a wall. Keep in mind the picture was taken the day after the incident had occurred and the villagers probably wanted to hide their involvement if they indeed were involved.

Look at the where the truck is, why were they driving off road? Don't give me that drunk crap, look at their blog, there is no history of them getting wasted and partying it up. Two beers between three people does not do this to you. All the other picture shows is the ditch running a short ways back, they were probably driving on the opposite side of it before what the picture shows.

Probably hide their involvement? I thought we are not speculating?
They said they had two beer thats not really drunk but, uuuh, they likely slid off cause it's really muddy there and if a rock was tossed at the window in the night then may not have noticed a deep canal.

I am on Riley and Mechrists side; the rock wall thing does not add up, or the "cliff" they saw in the night.
and sorry, people really gave them $$ via Facebook??!
Really? no? haha
Gerg

Trad climber
Calgary
Feb 8, 2013 - 05:02pm PT
This is so a book I am buying!
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 8, 2013 - 05:12pm PT

I have been trying to think of an analogy for this thread - the best I can come up with is a Calculus class where a few folks have already got it, a few will never get it, a few haven't even opened the book and the rest are strung out in various corners of not understanding.

Yeah, Riley and you're one of the ones strung out in a corner.

You can't even drive around in the U.S. without getting into altercations and getting tooled. Wait until you've learned how to behave at home before telling us what we should do in Peru.
graniteclimber

Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
Feb 8, 2013 - 05:21pm PT
But again, if you claim you have been tortured but are able to write/blog about it just days after, then I've got some serious questions about your credibility.

They never used the word "torture" but said that they had rocks thrown at their heads and were whipped with ropes and beaten. They major of the village as admitted that they were attacked. The pictures taken in the morning when the police arrive show them pretty beaten up.

So now they are lying because they shouldn't be able to write about it? Maybe you would still be having a nervous breakdown and be peeing your pants days later, but all that shows is that most people are stronger then you.

I can't prove that everything that they say is true, and I can't prove that some of it isn't incorrect.

But of all the arguments that they are lying on this thread, this is the weakest.

You're making Riley look smart.
Al_Smith

climber
San Francisco, CA
Feb 8, 2013 - 05:50pm PT
“We were whipped and beaten for a few hours in between sessions of interrogation.”

Sounds like the definition of torture to me.

Either way, you are an interesting person Granite. If you believe that no one has the right to express an opinion or viewpoint except for yourself, then why participate in a forum where the purpose is to express opinions and dialogue with others about things climbing (and not climbing - as the case may be) related? Why not just sit quietly and admire your own intellect and toughness?

Oh and on that score, I think its funny that given that we know each other so well that you find it possible to characterize my relative level of toughness. But if we are discussing the hypothetical of a large group of people beating, whipping, and interrogating me and two of my loved ones over the course of several hours, then yes, I sincerely doubt I'd have the wherewithal or desire to take to my blog the following day to share that suffering with the entire world wide web. I imagine I'd be talking about it, but I'd be doing so with my family, those I shared the experience with, law enforcement, etc. That was my only point. So if that makes me a wuss then I accept the charge.

You on the other hand I take it would be on the Taco the very next day sharing your experience and blathering away about how your family was crying while being whipped and beaten but you took the beating like the champion of courage that you are. And of course, we here on the Taco would neither question your story nor give you a hard time because after all you are so well loved and known to be so tough. I envy your intrepidity and I appreciate you setting me straight. You da' man.


mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 8, 2013 - 05:59pm PT
Joseph finally got his door shut and we drove off quickly in the opposite direction of where we came hoping that the road would lead us away.

That's what I would do if I just upset the locals... drive deeper into the unknown hills!
Alexey

Trad climber
San Jose, CA
Feb 8, 2013 - 06:02pm PT
for some folks "two bottle of beer" is too much
mechrist

Gym climber
South of Heaven
Feb 8, 2013 - 06:10pm PT
So now they are lying because they shouldn't be able to write about it?

They posted their story 3 days after the occurrence, asking for money and help. It has been over a month and I have yet to see any official documents posted anywhere. In fact, other than their TV appearance, and a "thanks for all the money" post, there doesn't seem to be a peep. Kind of strange for folks with such an intardweb presence to keep quite for so long... especially now that they are back in the US. Just sayin...
WBraun

climber
Feb 8, 2013 - 06:14pm PT
asking for money and help

Didn't their friends make the donations page for them without their original knowledge.

They said they never asked for money.

Am I wrong?

pat

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 8, 2013 - 06:15pm PT
They have a Facebook page they have been updating: http://www.facebook.com/MegaJed?ref=ts&fref=ts

Why should they update anyone on the internet if they didn't even ask anyone on the internet for money?
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Feb 8, 2013 - 06:17pm PT
All this speculation is just that, speculation.

I prefer to not pass judgement because I don't have all the facts. Neither do any of you.
ontheedgeandscaredtodeath

Social climber
SLO, Ca
Feb 8, 2013 - 06:17pm PT
We should issue a supertopo subpoena and command their attendance and testimony in this thread.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Feb 8, 2013 - 06:19pm PT
Totally.
plund

Social climber
OD, MN
Feb 8, 2013 - 06:20pm PT
Jesus f'in wept
pat

Trad climber
estes park
Feb 8, 2013 - 06:20pm PT
The internet was made for speculation.
Brandon-

climber
The Granite State.
Feb 8, 2013 - 06:23pm PT
I thought it was made for Al Gore.
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